www.angieslist.com - what's the motivation behind the site?
Submitted by greggles on Tue, 2007-03-13 21:46.
Well, I didn’t have any idea two months ago when I first wrote about www.angieslist.com that it would have quite such a strong reaction. There have been about 50 comments on the post and it has been growing daily. Yikes.
The real deal behind AngiesList.com
So, what is the story with Angies List. Is it good or bad? I said “sucks” but that’s an obvious overstatement that is a common online phrase. Sorry for the folks that pissed off. AngiesList.com provides a good service to people and people like it. So how can I also say that it’ bad? My points were mostly that they were being dishonest with customers and that their model was flawed and would eventually be “gamed” once the service got big enough. Spammers and shills would grow and ruin it, much like they’ve wreaked havoc on other big sites that started off great when they were small.
My alternative to www.AngiesList.com
So, what’s my alternative to Angies List? Well, in fact I have two alternatives:
You should see a little block on the right side of this page (and several others) that lists all the people whose services I’ve written about on my site. Obviously I like them. So, if that’s valuable to you then great.
Trust my lijit profile which has given ratings to all the sites I like (and I’ve got a few upstream folks trusted as well, so you’ll get their rankings). If you like that system sign up on Lijit and trust me. I’ll probably trust you back. Then we’ll get a big network of trusters going and we can rate everything. Awesome. That’s the real way to do a rating system. And guess what - no cost (at least none from your wallet to theirs).
Comments are for Authenticated users only - thanks anonymous Angies List Lovers!
Yeah, and PS: I really dislike arguing with people who are anonymous. I’ve got pretty much my whole life out in public. If you want to argue with me the least you can do is share a little information about yourself. To enforce that I’m limiting comments to authenticated users. If that’s frustrating, oh well. Consider it my set of costs to keep quality higher.
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Not all of us feel as you do about Angie's List, I'm one
I own a company that is on Angie’s List. Feel free to check us out, both on the list and in person if you wish. We are real. The name of my company is ‘Andre’s Auto & Truck Services, Inc.’ in Oldsmar Florida (Tampa Bay area). We were fortunate to be selected by a grateful customer, years ago, and the experience has been most rewarding for both my customers and my business. As you mentioned, I cannot influence the reports, except by performing work for members. They then have the option, and many don’t report, to send in a report for all to read. We recognize that quality, honesty, timeliness and personality make the difference in higher than most mechanical services. Angie’s members keep us on our toes, every day, because we understand that just one legitamate ‘Ah-Shit’ can chase off all the other members in one fell swoop.
really?
If anything the threads here about angies list have shown that there are a variety of opinions on both sides - many consumers and businesses love angies list and others really really don’t like angies list. as a company they seem to be quite polarizing.
i’m pretty mixed on them, but overall think the company has some flaws that need to be addressed.
some comments re: your Angie's List post
Greg,
First, a minor issue. You seem to want to defend your use of the word “sucks”, yet at the same time you say AngiesList is great but just has a few “holes” in its business model. Well, to me “sucks” is a fairly negative word, not at all meaning that they are a good thing. If I say “your site sucks”, that doesn’t mean I like it with reservations. It looks to me like you just used the word “sucks” for the shock value. There’s no need for that.
Additionally, I am a homeowner that uses AngiesList, and have yet to pay a fee. Do I think some reviews are probably forged? Absolutely. But I’ve seen absolute proof of that on other sites (I’m thinking of Epinions.com, btw), but what can you do about it really? You just hope the truthful reviews vastly outnumber the fake ones, and the law of averages takes over. That’s what has happened on resellerratings.com. When a company has 50,000 reviews, it doesn’t really matter if they faked 50 reviews.
I read some company owner griping that AngiesList takes the side of the client every time, and that he had to “cave in” to the customer in order to get keep referrals. Well, good for AngiesList! I can’t count the times I’ve had people walk off the job, take an advance and never do the work, do shoddy work and expect full payment, or even show up drunk at my home to receive payment! He doesn’t like that he has to keep the customer happy in order to keep getting referrals? Too bad. He needs to understand that’s why he’s getting the referrals in the first place—because he kept the customer happy. The day he doesn’t, I hope AngiesList does blackball his company. He’ll deserve it. AngiesList is all about finding good service, not about allowing companies to do whatever they want and still receive payment.
Finally, I’d advise people to use all resources when researching a company. Sure, the BBB is nice, but so is AngiesList and Epinions and any other place where people can put thoughts to paper (or web page). Use common sense, don’t pay in advance unless you have to, and use all resources at your disposal. That would be my advice.
-Brian
zMobs: Angies List + Social Networking ..
Andy,
Check my comment below.. I have been using zMobs, a new free beta service launched for small service providers. You can get recommended by customers and user their network to get more business… the URL is
http://www.zmobs.com
I only saw e-Bay mentioned minimally...
First, I am going to assume the “why Angie’s List sucks” blog post was shut down. I searched for a bit trying to see where I could add my two cents and didn’t see the same “Add Comment” as I saw on this page…anyway…
I wanted to bring attention to a “gut reaction” I had about the “Angie’s List” concept. I understand that there is claim that “Angie” is charging businesses for advertising their site when it outright claims on the same website that they do not charge businesses to be in the list. Rather the operating income of the site (as it is stated) comes from consumer memberships. If in fact “Angie” is generating income from the businesses to give those businesses ANY kind of special treatment on their site then I believe that NOBODY should use Angie’s List and in fact the whole service is 100% worthless. Any company that just boldfacedly lies about how its service works to get you involved (whether for money or not) should NOT be trusted in ANYTHING they do from that point forward.
To pro-actively give a defense to those who would come back and claim that “I must not own a home,” or “I must not have moved across country and had no referral base,” or anything along those lines - let me help you think logically before berating me because I have touched your emotional heart strings (or your pocketbooks - depending on the audience):
If in fact the services you used because of good ratings on Angie’s List were in fact top notch and you were thankful…IF in fact Angie’s List is charging those service companies to have the top ratings (regardless of whether service is top notch OR substandard) wouldn’t it be easy to see that a company who pays for a top dollar listing in the Yellow Pages could STILL be a reputable company? My point is that IF Angie’s List has amounted to nothing more than an advertising service that shows companies at the top who have paid TOP DOLLAR to be listed at the top - AND - you just so happened to get good service from the top rated company you chose from Angie’s List…wouldn’t it be possible to have chosen that same company if that same service company paid top dollar to be in the biggest, brightest ad in the Yellow Pages? To further my point - IF in fact Agnie’s List rated companies are paying top dollar and you got good service - it was nothing more than a random crap shoot that you happened to get good service. You very LIKELY could have received HORRIBLE service if the category you were searching just so happened to have a company that paid TOP DOLLAR to be listed in the TOP SPOT but had a bad habit of just doing poor work at poor prices and with poor services.
Again - before you berate me (as it seems has happened an unreasonable amount over this topic - which leads me to think “conspiracy theory” - which also leads me to believe that SOMEONE is HIGHLY active in convoluting the truth - and with “Agnie’s” apparently super hot, super efficient marketng and press relations….hmm…) I WANT YOU TO THINK! IF money has to do with how a company is rated and listed (not just consumer ratings alone!) - then isn’t this just the same as opening the Yellow Pages and randomly picking anybody out of there? The answer is yes - again IF all of that is true. And from what I’ve seen here about business owners who claimed to have used Angie’s List - then the big IF I refer to IS true. Angie’s List DOES tell the consumers to trust the list because Angie does NOT charge companies to be listed and rated. Then according to some of the business owners - THEY ARE CHARGED to have “enhanced listings.” This is nothing more than Yellow Pages advertising (and of course it shouldn’t have to be said - AN OUTRIGHT LIE AND DECEPTIVE PRACTICE.) The MORE money you spend - the MORE exposed your company will be to the audience.
IF these things are not true - then I would like to know.
To further with my “gut reaction” (if anybody is still reading to this point…) I thought of e-Bay. e-Bay store owners (of the likes which have the little main street store fronts popping up all over the several different counties around my locale) LIVE AND DIE by the ratings they receive from their customers. My father in law will also rely very heavily upon the e-Bay ratings of a seller before entering into negotiations/transactions with any seller.
Of course on e-Bay - the seller also has the ability to rate the buyer back. And then for ANY e-Bay ID - you are able to review the entire log of feedback for both selling and buying history.
Many companies (again like the store front e-Bayers) will push and push and push for you to leave feedback on the site after a transaction was completed. Obviously they want to have the excellent feedback. In return - the seller will promise to give you likewise ratings for your buyer side.
In its simplest form - wouldn’t this truly be the answer to a referal network based system like the one Angie’s List is claiming it has created?
Simply allow the customers and the servicers to have open ability to place one comment each per transaction. Then if there are any disputes - simply have a moderator from the “hosting company (i.e. Angie’s List)” arbitrate and otherwise resolve the dispute with a THIRD comment coming from the “hoster” as to a final opinion of the comments left.
Let the service business report abuse to their record with faulty reports and let the customers report abuse with the same. ANY abuser of the system would be banned from the system. Again - with the intervention of the “hoster” to make this judgment on a case - by - case system.
And to make all things equal - just charge the same membership fee to the business owner as you would to the consumer as the “admittance to the community fee” and otherwise keep the “neighborhood” clean, safe, efficient, and effective. If ALL are being charged EQUALLY then ALL would have EQUAL rights and EQUAL say (whether consumer or business) and the moderator or “hoster” would not be inclined or influnced to make decisions with any more or less favor towards either of the “classes of its constituents.”
HA! Go figure - a free economy? What a concept!
Opinoins? I actually think I am going to be building this service myself. I already have the call into the web developers! ;-)
Why Angie's List does indeed suck
I have used Angie’s List off and on for awhile and have been privy through my friends, to the life and life’s blood of this organization. I have come to a couple of conclusions. Firstly, Angie’s List is not a service it is a business, a big fat advertising business. They have about 10 different types of advertisements and I have been told 100 people selling those ads. Good gracious people, 100! What does that tell us? Step right up and buy your hot spot on Angie’s List, fake good reports and bury the real negative ones and you can go out there and do as much crummy work as you want. Does Angie care, no, not as long as you can buy buy buy an ad.
You used to be able to see all the companies on one scroll down page, now there are maybe 15 companies to a page. There could be 40 or 50 guys in town on the List with good solid reports, let’s say in plumbing, but unless you are willing to look through page after page you won’t find them. You can, however, find those advertisers. Angie’s List is pushing a company to buy position. A fine example of integrity. You can’t buy yourself on the list, just up the list and once again the biggest spender gets the bone.
So, I have decided to save my cash and never renew my membership and I’ll resort to where I get all my good info——My mother, my friends, my neighbors, people in the community.
IMHO Angies List Sucks Even More After Reading Posts
We are interested in having a new roof put on our home. My wife mentioned Angie’s list to me, and without checking it out, I signed up for one month. We were promptly charged the monthly fee and a signup fee. I cannot begin to tell you how stupid I feel for doing this.
We live in a community of 100,000+ people about 30 miles from Chicago. There were several roofers listed within a 50 mile radius. I chose three roofers that had a fair number of recent reviews and were more reasonably located near our home. None of those three will be doing the job. One failed to call back. One passed. The last one offered an estimate of between $6000 to $9000 without ever inspecting the roof, then asked, “So when do you want us to start?” I requested a written estimate, and was told it would be mailed to me. After two weeks I’m still checking my mailbox.
I spent a lot of time checking out other businesses out of curiosity. The information I got was abysmal. It seemed like very few businesses in my immediate area were even on the list. In thirty some categories the information was woefully lacking at best. For example, only two auto repair services were found. There are probably twenty within five miles of our home.
Thanks for your article. I only wish I googled Angies LIst first.
zMobs: Angies List + Social Networking ..
I am a avid user of LinkedIn and Facebook and find these services very useful. Recently came across a new free service called zMobs at http://www.zmobs.com. The service offers small service providers an option to get recommended by its customers for free in a social networking enviornment. so zMobs is LinkedIn + Craigslist + Angies List .. check it out. the beta was recently launched and I like it so far..
Zack
Opinions of Angie's List
I am a NYC apartment owner looking for a general contractor (GC) for a complete renovation. I just signed on w/ Angie’s List (for free for a year, btw, w/out entering any payment or CC info). Time & experience will tell whether or not it’s a worthwhile service. Though the review system/business model may be flawed, when it comes to homeowners hiring contractors (or architects), you have to realize that pretty much every referral system (informal or not) is flawed. I’ve been looking for a GC for a year already. I live in a big apartment building - have for almost 10 years - and so have plenty of neighbors and a super to ask for referrals. Let me tell you, just b/c your neighbor/friend/relative/co-worker thought a GC did a good job is just about completely irrelevant to whether or not that GC will work out well for you. Property owners searching for GC services need all the help they can get in order to spend their $$$ wisely. AL is just another tool available towards that end. Unless you’ve had a specific bad experience that began with AL, let it go.
I have to tell all the ranters: Well, of course AL is in it to make money! Duh! It’s a business! And, if you can’t afford $5/month easy, well, what the hell kinda contractor do you expect to be able to afford?! As for those who suspect conspiracy theories: good luck making yourself feel important.
Susie, NYC
good luck indeed
Well, how cute! I just got an email the other day more angies list complaints from customers and your comment inspired me to share it with the world.
The ironical thing is that 1) ironical isn’t a word 2) the review company needs to get reviewed itself.
I’m glad Angie’s List is just another tool in your box, but why not add something really groovy like zmobs or lijit to your tool box?
"Cute"?!
Why not, indeed. And so I will (though groovy is hardly what I’m looking for in a contractor).
Re. some other post on this subject, You can’t trust anyone in most businesses, silly! Use your common sense & instincts. These online lists are just names to call. The decision to hire or not is yours alone!
susie, NYC
p.s. You could just say “ironic.”
(No subject)
Yelp
I was trying to get onto Angie’s List but could not (server is down…) and found your “Angie’s List Sucks” and stopped to read it instead. I have never subscribed to Angies List
but know people who love it. I was writing a blog entry about having delusions of becoming Angie’s List two years ago… Someone invited me to Yelp this week. I understand Yelp is an online reviews of businesses.
I remember meeting a girl who was starting Angie’s list in Columbus… maybe 14 years ago. I remember it bothered me that her name was not Angie.
I like your list of suppliers. Like a blogroll.
Maureen at ColumbusBestBlog.com
Yelp
I’m not concerned about Angie’s List’s name, but rather what they do. They collect money from people with the promise that they are there to look out for consumers. They claim “we work for you, not the contractors”. Then they sneak around and sell advertsing to the contractors that they rate.
Yelp is free and doesn’t pretend to act like some holier than thou nonprofit consumer rights group. Like Angie’s List, Yelp shares some of the same flaws, but at least it’s free and Yelp hasn’t misled people about how they operate as far as I can tell.
Joe Q
Yelp
I agree that Yelp is a great service. Unfortunately, it doesn’t totally solve the problem you guys highlighted where the contractor can post their own glowing review under a phony name. There are a number of entries in Yelp where that has obviously happened, and the readers have flagged it.
Any time you embark on a home improvement project, use all of the resources available to you: internet AND the good old fashioned personal references!
Great site Greg!
how AL monitors fraud
AL checks a company’s information against member information on file. If a phone, address, name, email address or even a password matches, Angie’s List investigates it. While this process may take some time to catch a company committing fraud, it works. Many businesses are blacklisted or suspended for self-reporting.
Additionally, only one report per year on a company from the same member is allowed. So, if a company has the time and money to purchase that many memberships for the sake of a few good reports…the more power to them. Angie’s List always recommends looking at more than one company for advice or service. Check the BBB, use other resources and get informed and not scared by a dumb site like this. Angie’s List has customer service reps to ask questions…and oh, yeah, they do get paid…
interesting insights
Great to know how they find duplicates. Now every business that wants to get around it knows and will be sure to cover their traces against those tests.
I don’t understand how you can say that Angies List will find the fraud in one sentence and then say that if companies figure out how to get around the system (which is obviously not hard) then “more power to them.”
About using other resources: isn’t part of the point of Angies List that you don’t have to be bothered researching a company on other sites? So, I pay $5/month to get access to a list of potentially biased recommendations and when I’m done reading those I get the luxury of doing all the research I could have done for free anyway? No thanks.
Maureen in Columbus
Funny how you remember a girl selling Angie’s list in Columbus 14 years ago. Angie did indeed go door to door to start this business about 14 years ago. She did enlist help to cover as much ground as possible. There is an Angie and she is real.
Workpost.com
http://www.workpost.com is new but could be a useful site one day.
Angie's List
I have read the posts on this website regarding Angie’s List and found the range of comments very interesting. First of all, I should state that I am a non-participating Angie’s List member and will remain so until my membership expires. I choose not to participate due to a bad experience that resulted from a negative review that I wrote. To make a long story short, I wound up getting harassing phone calls from the contractor.
Be that as it may, it is not a question of whether Angie’s List is in business to make money (duh!), which of course it is or it would not remain in business. I personally have no problem with Angie’s List making money as long as the service provided is as advertised.
Nor is it a question of whether the model is flawed, which I happen to believe it is not from a business sense. I cannot think of better business model than to get the people that provide a service to pay for advertising and then have the people that use the services to pay as well.
Nor is it a question of whether the reviews and/or ratings are a true representation of contractor’s capabilities; at best, the ratings provided by Angie’s List can only be taken as guides and not absolutes. The bottom line is that all review sites are flawed simply due to the fact that all inputs are not unbiased and that the processing of those inputs are not unbiased. It is not plausible that Angie’s List has not come up with the perfect method for processing all reviews.
Some posts on this subject are based on experience (both good and bad) and some appear to be based on other motives, which may or may not be related to more personal ties to Angie’s List.
The real question is whether or not you would recommend Angie’s List as a review service that requires a membership fee. I would prefer that any input be made based on firsthand experience as a member/contractor and not from employees or friends/family members of employees. Although it might be interesting to point out the benefits or flaws of the business and operational models, that insight does not carry as much weight as actual experience. There really isn’t anything personal involved with providing an opinion, either for or against Angie’s List so quit getting so uptight. People that are happy with the service that Angie’s List has provided them will most likely recommend it, whereas people that have had a bad experience with Angie’s List will most likely not recommend it.
My recommendation from a homeowner’s standpoint would be to not to pay to join Angie’s List unless there are no other informational resources that can be trusted (e.g. limited information is better than no information at all). My reason for making this recommendation is directly related to my own bad experience with Angie’s List.
In the end, it is up to the readers of this website to read the posts herein and make an assessment as to whether Angie’s List is right for them or not. Eliminate the nonsensical, the rhetorical, the theoretical, and the emotional (that includes this post if you believe it falls into one or more of those categories). There is no absolute right answer since each individual has their own experiences and their own set of unique requirements.
InteriorLiving.Com Anyone?
Why pay for Angies List when you can get it for Free at InteriorLiving.Com?
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