Why Angies List Sucks
Note: "sucks" is a pretty strong and immature word, but it's the word to use online when you think someone has a bad idea. So, if that's off-putting, get over it. Or start a "sucks sucks" site.
Recently I was asked what I thought of Angie's List. Frankly, I had no idea. I was told it was a pretty neat list that has good ratings of local retailers. The idea is that you are looking for advice on a company to hire for a service (e.g. car repair) so you check Angie's List and see the advice and ideas of other users who have used the site. It's basically like Better Business Bureau, City Search, or one of thousands of other local directories. Many of these directories are broken: biased reviews, paid inclusion, incomplete information, etc. This is where Angie's List claims to be different. They use "only" consumer generated content and require a "small fee" to keep the reviews unbiased.
Here's a bit on the policy:
Consumer support means it's honest: Companies don't pay to be on Angie's List. Only Angie's List members report on the companies they've hired. View the list of services rated in your area. Additionally, members make sure the ratings are clean and honest by supporting Angie's List. They pay a MEMBERSHIP FEE because we work for them (not the contractors) to keep the list growing with the most accurate information about the companies in their area.
Why This Angies List Policy is Dumb
Let's say that I'm a consumer. If Angie's list charges me $5/month I have to get a lot of value out of the list for it to be worth that membership fee. They have millions of customers though, so apparently it's compelling to some folks. Let's say that I'm the business owner, though. If I can create a fake email account and use my home address (or my neighbors address) so that Angie's List doesn't know who I am, then $5/month is a pittance for being able to enter a review of my own business.
So, their whole "we charge a small fee to keep the reviews honest" thing doesn't work for the stated policy, but it sure does help them bring in revenue without worrying about advertising.
Paid Position/Advertising on Angie's List?
Here's the worst part - after your company gets added they contact you and say something like "your company has been added and reviewed. If you'd like you have an enhanced listing you can pay us for that."
So the whole "we are acting in our members best interests" thing is bullshit! They have one interest in mind: their own.
The Review Problem is Real
The thing is - it's really hard to run a review site. Really hard. Getting valuable metrics is difficult. How does each user know if they should be trusting the other users of the site. Angie's List's paid membership program clearly doesn't make sense (though it may work than other current options). So, what's the future? Fortunately, it's the online corollary to the system you already use in real life: you ask your friends and colleagues via social bookmarking that helps guide you to the best local plumber. This is the clear way to solve the problem in the future.
Sorry, Angie's List. You could implement these features in your site, but don't pretend that the $5 is for anything other than your own pockets.
Edit: For an update and details as far as why you have to login to write comments see www.angieslist.com update post
Comments
Angie's List
Yes, your use of the word "sucks" in realtion to Angie's List is STRONG and full of your own apparent biases! Although a service business could circumvent Angie's List check and balances on occassion it would ultimately be short lived if they weren't providing top notch service in the long process. Why? Because any other member that used that service would certainly post their own review of their own particular experience. In addition, Angie's List only allows one review per service customer per every six months and you must be a current paid subscriber (and not just the $5.00 a month as you allude to). Personally, my husband and myself have used it on the recommendations of friends and have had nothing but great experiences with it. It's ironic that you should condemn Angie's List for being a for profit organization. Might I ask what line of business you are in? Is your company in business to make a profit? Go Figure! Nevertheless, Angie's List fills a real void in selecting a service company and we look forward to their continued success and profitability!
Cheers!
Jenny Gray
some responses
Hi,
Allow me to respond.
It's the standard word for this kind of a review, so it is you who needs to get over it. It's not a bias, it's a standard. Welcome to the interweb.
Then they should state those details in their policy (I didn't find those details and I spent a fair amount of time tryint to review the site).
That's great that you've had good experiences with the site. My point is not so much that the site gives bad recommendations, but that their policy is not logically sound and can easily be gamed. Once a service becomes big enough and popular enough, those with a business interest will game it even if the policies worked fine when the service was smaller (see DMOZ and Wikipedia for example).
I don't condemn them for being for-profit. I condemn them for providing an illogical reason for the $5 fee while ignoring a perfectly logical one. If they had said "we charge this small fee to run our service and reduce biased reviews" then I'd have no problem with the explanation (except that it doesn't work as well as a system like lijit).
Absolutely they do and I hope that they can improve their model (and their honesty).
Angie's List and why it sucks.
I happen to agree but for a very different reason. I can't access it. Not contact, Tips, Faqs or any other part of the web site can I view which leads me to conclude it was written for PC users only. I use Mac
Additionally I live in SW Missouri which is an easy 200 miles from the only Missouri towns on Angie's List pull down menu: St Louis and Kansas City. When I enter my area code the town that pops up is a farming community of approximately 250 persons that is located between our two County seats - a total of 100,000 persons or more - and 90 miles from the largest city in SW Missouri, population 300,000 and growing.
Unless I am driving to KC to gamble, or St. Louis to purchase skin care products Angie's List is of ZERO use to me. I ablsolutley guarantee the next time I need home repar I will not hire a conatractors in either of the cities in Angiels List menu, but I will ask my neighbors for the name of a LOCAL contractor. .
Pj
..
Angie's list is heavenly
Thanks for the insight on useless information. I'm a contractor on Angie's list and pay them nothing. I don't even see my profile but keep receiving gracious customers based on my original report write up. When I get a lead from a homeowner it's like i'm they're brothers friend whom they trust and have no problem hiring me. When I do get hired I don't skip a beat since I can get written up. In fact I'm on my best behavior with a fair price and even pet they're animals. The only complaint which i can say they "SUCK" is that I don't recieve as many leads as they're competitor Servicemagic. 20% of my business comes from service magic although 1/2 of the leads are bogus or hard to get to since they are given to 3 other contractors. I do have bad comments made about me on service magic which have since been lost in the amount of good comments but you can't help what trashy people will say about you just because they can and some uneducated people who don't ask questions about your service will just assume they're screwed over and write a bad review. I pay service magic about $600 per year and recieve about $3,000 worth of work not to mention referrals, so it's worth it to me. I get a lead from Angie's list every 6 months which turns into a job which is only $650 worth of work. As far as what others have to say from a customer standpoint, $5 is not much to spend for a 3rd party piece of mind you can get from an unbiased source. They do ask us to advertise but there's no link between good reports and advertisement. Actually good reviews for contractors typically show that they're too busy to get to you since they're in high demand which I've seen from ordering contractors myself on my home.
Angie's List Sucks Sucks
I'm a contractor that was referred to this list by a friend. I looked into the service and joined it as a consumer. It seemed like a great idea. The contractors seemed to not be able frame their side of the story without the customer first giving theirs. This is great. I saw so many companies out there that touted themselves as Mother Theresa and you look them up on BBB and they have issues. It seemed like a site that companies couldn't pay to play. It seemed to be a place that the customer had the power to frame the site which would weed out the bad ones. I started talking to my new customers about it and one of them joined and wrote a review. This is where things got bad. Immediately an Angie's List salesperson called me and told me about an enhanced service. She told me that the more reviews you get the higher on the list you are but that you could pay to get closer to the top of the list. I knew that we did a good job and if we could get business from Angie's List it would grow because those customers would fill out a review and we would grow getting closer to the top. With the top of the list filled with 10 paid contractors and the unpaid ones way down the list, I couldn't see getting any looks unless I paid. I spoke to the Salesperson about signing a 6 month contract because I didn't want to get stuck in a 1 year contract, it not work and not have any options. I wanted to see how it went. The salesperson told me that I had to hurry because of a deadline and so she faxed the contract. I signed it and faxed it back. After six months and a lack of a return on my investment, I was looking forward to the payments stopping. Another payment came out and so I called to get a refund and make sure they canceled the service. At this time they told me that I signed a 1 year contract. I had to look at the contract that I signed and saw where it did say that it was 1 year. I got the bate and switch and it turns out that the salesperson no longer works for Angie's List. Their response was that they didn't believe me and that they recorded the conversations. I told them to look into it because it would reveal that all of my conversations would show that I specifically expressed an unwillingness to sign a 1 year contract. The account manager said that he would look into it and get back to me. He never did. I finally called him and he told me that the conversations seemed to back what I said but that his boss and his bosses boss said that I signed a contract and that I'm stuck with it. Wow. That doesn't sound like the Angie's List that they seemed to be portraying themselves to be. I wonder what their subscribers would think if contractors did pay for positioning and that Angie's List actively work to get customers to write reviews of the paying contractors. Now the site isn't customer driven. The customer is along for a ride and the contractor is able to manipulate the outcome. This seems to be at least dishonest. Angie's list isn't for everyone. I wouldn't pay for this service again. Not because it's not a good return or a return at all on investment but because they are dishonest and they are more interested in their own profit than their customer's success. It's at least a huge conflict of interest to have a customer pay and a company pay. I'm going to have to watch money come out of my account month after month until this contract is month. I haven't had an inquiry in 4 months. That Suck Sucks!
Angies Preferred Placement Cost
Great info, So how much did Angieslist Preferred Placement cost as the contractor? I've considered this option. As an architect, it's important that the leads are actual customers and not just people looking for free ideas.
Thanks,
Mark
It's over $400 a month and
It's over $400 a month and you have to make sure that you have people write you up or it's worthless. I didn't get enough results. It might be better for an architect but if there is no return there is no future.
hurray for them. getting it
hurray for them. getting it from both ends while giving it to you in the back end. Maybe I must have missed out on the screw-train. THEY SUCK. There sales tactics are very cunning to say the least, seems they tried to pull the same crap on me.
I to am a contractor in the
I to am a contractor in the plumbing heating cooling trades. I was paying Service magic @$6 a lead when I first started then the BS began. Increased rates first, then The Exact match program, by the time it was all said and done they were making as much as I was and I was doing all the work. Free estimates to compete with people who have been run out of there own town and traveled 50 miles to get work. Then to have them cut there prices and send the non-english speaking types to do the work illegally (most not journeyman status). If they are so great. why are they working here. BECAUSE SERVICE MAGIC IS MAKEING MILLIONS OFF IDIOTS WHO PAY THEM LIKE US. Angies list is another story. Advertised with them for a month and FIRED THEM. Cost me $875 for a dead phone and there still trying to screw me out of another $437. Word to the wise dont pay a dime for there upgrade advertising. Got to give it to them though, there getting there "Jack" from both ends. To get to the point, the whole internet scene is a joke. If its not the advertisers screwing you its the clients looking for the cheapest contractor they can find and they will usually find them there. WORD OF MOUTH IS BY FAR THE BEST. The only good thing about either company is that it is a great place to start, unless they and most of there clients cause you to go broke and jump in front of the bus. As for most of the customers who complain. THEY PAY FOR WHAT THEY GET AND "MY HEART BLEEDS FOR THEM" FOR ALL THE WAISTED TIME THEY CAUSED ME. I HAPPENED TO HAVE BEEN A 5 STAR CONTRACTOR FOR OVER 5YRS AND HAD TO THROW IN THE TOWEL WITH THE INTERNET. I BELIEVE THAT REAL SMART PEOPLE WILL PAY AN EXTRA COUPLE OF BUCKS TO USE SOMEONE LOCAL WHO HAS A REPUTATION TO KEEP BUT LIVES WITH A HIGHER STANDARD. GOOD LUCK THEY BOTH SUCK
Re: Angie's list
I agree with you. I had been a member/consumer for about four months, and; I received a call claiming to be from Angie's list and wanting ratings of any company I had used on their list. I informed the young man, I waited three plus weeks for one man to show up, got tired, and did the job myself. It is not that tough to do home improvement work if you want to. This was a front door, and; I was not waiting a month replace a door jam. Now, what got me, was this clown claimed he needed a report for Angie's list. I was told to give them a report for any great company I had ever used. Well, that was a month plus ago. Angie's list is bothering the hell out of the heating and cooling company I gave high rating for.
These are con artists in my opinion. The phone number I received the call for the so called report for Angie's list was a college pay phone. From what I see it is a highly questionable business, and; no they did not want any bad report. I emailed and cancelled my membership this PM. It will take a few days.
This is totally stupid
Listen.......
Just because someone uses angies list does not mean that they will treat you like a brother. Sounds to me like your just making up some boloney! There is no way that they assume they can trust you just because of someones good experience with you! For example..... Look at Ebay! Ebay has members that have ALL good reviews and STILL are ripping people off. And they also have people with horrendous reviews that got a few bad eggs buying from them that you could NEVER satisfy for nothing. So tell me? Which person would you rather make a purchase from? The truth is that the average person is misinformed and lazy! Say you have someone give you a bid on a job. And another person, and yet another. How many people do you think actually look at what they are getting from each other those people to see if the one that is MORE money is actually charging more because he is using far superior more expensive materials? Not many check into that. And then when they go with the lower priced party they get mad because they were expecting the quality the higher bidder included in his bid. Then they write a bad report on the person who gave them everything they paid for! And the higher bidder was out of a job because the consumer was a cheapskate! I see it all the time and it sickens me. You simply cannot win with these types of services because one mans expectation is NOT another mans!
Thank you for your time reading my reasoning!
AngiesList and Mac
Don't blame the Mac. I'm 100% Mac and have no problems at all on Mac 10.4 with my iMac, my old Pismo Laptop, and my older 933 PowerPC G4. Your problem is probably not related to the Mac.
Angie's List Vs. Servicemagic
My house was flooded out only 3 days ago by a ruptured waterline. The water spewed out of the hose that supplies the toilet tank to the master bathroom. I was gone to work and my wife discovered the flooding when she got home at 7 PM. Both the master and main bathrooms, the master bedroom and 2nd bedroom with closets and the hallway to the entryway were flooded. We and a company named Service Master have been cleaning for all 3 days.
First of All, Service Master in the Vallejo Benecia area is absolutely FANTASTIC!!! I cannot say anything at all negative about them. They have done an excellant job a cleaning and gutting out the damage. They supply a person who photographs and itemizes on paper everything that was ruined. She is so precise that she is not done and will be back on Monday.
Now to Angie's List. To have to pay to find out about reviews on who to get to repair out house is outrageous. When I found that I have to say that as tired as I am from the last 3 days, I still wanted to scream. Instead I found Servicemagic and used them. The four contractors that were listed for bathroom remodels and contracting all had been in business for at least 15 years. One is over 25 years old. You don't get to be in business that long as a contractor if you don't do good work or if you suck!! Because if you suck, the word or mouth will get to the point that you will never get any business.
Back to Servicemagic, the automatic email that was sent out to all four was replied by 2 within 1 hour of my entering in the information. I only entered in the information at 1 PM on today, Saturday, Feb. 14. They called me on SATURDAY!!!
Both of them are coming out today to do their estimates.
I called up my friends who have had remodels done in the past and mentioned the names that Servicemagic gave me and the said "oh Yeah, I forgot, thoses guys do real good work".
One caveat to all those that will be neding a remodel contractor in the future, call you local insurance adjustor and ask them who they would use and reccomend.
Angieslist VS Servicemagic...
it's obvious to me as a contractor that this issue may vary greatly depending on location !! i'm in Seattle and Servicemagic charges me anywhere from $20-$150 per lead depending on the scope of the project and if you dont think that expensive for me or profitable for them your crazy !! and how i love to run the lead (if they respond, if they dont i can get a refund so to speak, but it comes in the form of another lead) only to lose it to another contractor and now accountability really leaves something to be desired as i have no idea why or if the lead was ever legite to begin with. i have run sales calls where i am convinced they werent looking for a remodel as they could care less about the questions i had for them etc...
as for Angieslist, i have had great success with them or should i say my customers have made me appreciate the site, like another mentioned, i know their going to report so i'm trying as hard as possible to make them happy !! i do pay to stay towards the top by simply offering coupons and the customer chooses to have the search compile that way. also if offering coupons is beyond your scope of business sense then maybe you should stay further down the list !!!!!!
yes... i could probably figure out a way to get my own review posted but it would only affect me in the first few posts, if youre in business and as the list grows, youre eventually talking about 20, 30, 40+ reviews to be legite and competetive, so 2 or 3 fake reviews wouldnt matter, either youre good or youre not, and this site will accuratley judge that in the long run !!!! my only beef is that the # of reviews really does affect you and in a year i can do 20 bathroom remodels or one big house addition/remodel and at the end of the year the amount of reports could affect my standing. i wish they would add $ into their calculations
Angieslist coupons
Yes Angieslist business can offer coupons, however there is a heavy fee along with that. So I as a business owner have to pay, sign a contract to offer my customers a coupon??? Doesn't make much sense when the money Angieslist charges for the coupon listing could be going to make and even larger discount. Oh and if you decide to sign the contract with Angieslist and Coupon, you also get listed at the top even if you have C, D and/or F's. Compared to other companies who have all A's.
I had a customer put up a review that was an out right lie! I contacted Angieslist immediately with emails to prove it was a lie( maybe a competitor..and no they do not check that as they say they do).
They said their obligation was to the consumer and that the ad had to stay up for 7 days while waiting to hear back from the consumer. After calling them numerous times and explaining to them that this was slander and no contract they have would hold up to them not removing the complaint.(which business on the list should know, it a scare tactic on their part). I have several customers who are attorneys and they looked into this for me, so I am not pulling this out of my ass. As well as the customers love to tell you I found you on Angieslist as though saying I can put a bad review if you if you do one little thing wrong or I think you over charge me. It is Amazing to see the grades people give, got thier moneys worth, but they give a B for price.. B for Bullshit !
referral companies, et. al.
I am a contractor and have used many different referral companies over the years. I was considering Angie's List and decided to do some research first, henceforth I came to this blog. Thank you all for the unbiased information. It is very helpful to see other sides of an issue.
Just to share some 'hopefully' useful information:
It seems, in my experience, that the larger the referral company, the more profit motivated they are and the less valuable for both the contractor and the homeowner. The big national companies, such as Service Magic, send a lot of leads out for the contractors, but do not verify the information. I used them and found a good number of the leads I paid for were dead ends (no response, no money, etc.). In addition, because they create instant competition by sending clients 3-5 contractors, companies that hold an excellent reputation are thrown in front of the client along with many questionable ones. Since the clients can't tell the difference, their choice eventually is reduced to price. With reputable contractor's prices being commensurate with their service, they are left out of the game.
I have found that the smaller local referral companies to be far more effective. They usually send out only a couple contractors to each client. They take the time to research the contractor and talk to their previous clients for reference. They also stay in touch with the client during the construction process to reinforce their involvement and help the clients with any questions. Generally, their cost to the contractor is higher, but the ratio of closed sales are too.
For the homeowner, this is a big plus. The local referral companies actually 'know' their contractors. They can actually answer questions posed about the contractor. Also, after interviewing the homeowner, they can know which contractor they represent would be a good 'fit' for them.
In conclusion, my only regret is that there are not more small local referral firms. The ones I use are excellent, but because the marketing costs are high to get leads, they don't produce the quantity of qualified leads as the national companies.
Suggestion: If you are a contractor, research and find local companies and use them. The more contractors that sign on, the more marketing dollars they will have to generate leads for you. The leads they provide you will also be more solid.
If you are a homeowner and need a contractor, use these local companies. They will be more responsive and accurate in providing a contractor qualified for your needs.
p.s. If you are looking to start a small business and be a part of the solution, rather than part of the problem, consider starting a referral company. Done correctly, you'll make some decent money and help your neighborhood be a better place to live.
A happy and safe New Year to all.
info
I saw where someone was complaining about what city they access, and the initial post here. I'm surprised that people will take the time to create a website with so much false information -it tells me there is an ax to grind somewhere -but I'm sure from the sound of things -no one will admit that.
I used to work for Angie's List.
1. NO annonymous reviews. When people sign up they have to give more than a fake email address. They give credit card numbers, which match addresses, and AL publishes a magazine -so the magazine goes out in the mail and obviously they would get it back if it wasn't right -and much more.
Do companies cheat on al? Sure they do =but the KEY is that they can't do it to nearly the level they do it on free sites like service magic, or yellow book, or google, or whatever. The reason is simple -they have to supply a lot of info up front with the membership, and once they are a member, that membership can only be used to report on the same company once every six months -doubtful someone is getting a new roof that often if you know what I mean.
So unlike the free lists - even if a company DOES report on themselves -they can only do it one time. Well -one report isn't going to get you anywhere and in popular markets -2-5 won't even get you anywhere -depending on which category the company is in. They still have to work hard and put in the time, unless their initial reports have a high enough rating.
Companies that get on the list with an overall grade of A or B -current reports, and no negative reviews with the better business bureau are invited to advertise. If their grade drops below a B, AL drops the ad. I know because those who sell the ads get the $ taken out of their check when an ad gets dropped. They WILL sometimes wait a month -until the next cycle to give the company a chance to bring the grade up if they know the company had been doing well, and the company knows they've done more jobs recently for other customers -just to see if the grade will come back up quickly -but that is few and far between.
Those companies can move up a little faster -but they have to have merit to begin with to do so AND they are required to offer a coupon offer to the members. So if the members are looking at 100 companies -and all of them have A's -but some of them -also good companies are making a special offer to give them a try -sure why not. The site isn't for companies -its for the members -so basically the companies are paying to get seen and get more jobs -which benefits them, plus they are giving a discount of some kind to al members. Its fair because no matter what -it still has to be a company that earned merit on their own to get on the list in the first place before they could advertise. It's not an opportunity for a company with F's -that takes a deposit from customers and runs -to advertise to get more customers.
Now -for the cheaters - here's what happens -they pay for one report , get on the list, and they sit, and sit and sit. My guess is the little group here who did that -experienced that initially. Then they got together and made reports on each other. Bottom line though is that these guys had to do a heck of a lot more than just create fake emails on yahoo to get those reports on there. They all had to purchase memberships, they all had to come up with addresses within each city, cards to match the addresses, a place for the magazine to be sent in the mail and email, -this is a pretty involved operation. Point being, 99% of the companies on Angie's List WOULD NEVER BOTHER TO GO THAT FAR. Too much trouble -too involved, they want too much info, etc etc etc. On free lists companies have their secretary's sign up, mom, dad, brother, sister, -cause its FREE -and all the info you have to give is an email address, and answer the one time verfication email and your done.
As far as the list working for them -well, if you are on there in a major market, (not a new one), and you only have a few reports, -you probably won't get calls -you have to build up a reputation. The members can read other reports that same member has made. The members are also smart enough to recognize a "glowing ad" when a company makes one -the companies that cheat are so obvious its hilarious. We had one company get on there and the wife made the report -and OMG -she went on and on about how the owners "lovely wife was so gracious and kind", and "she was very intelligent -not sure if this company could make it without her" -those are not comments the typical customer would make and they were caught pretty quickly. Some companies are dumb enough to use their own names! Others just make constant reference to the people that work there, etc -it really sounds like a commercial. Truth is -its flat out easy to distinguish in most cases, and even if we haven't noticed the report right away -the members do.
AND if they do cheat to get on, and they are a "bad company" "do shoddy work" -the very first LIVE member that uses them is going to submit a REAL report -and they can't cover it up by making 5-10 glowing ones to drive the bad one down like they do on service magic, and other places.
The people who pulled this off, put a lot of work into it -and most companies are honest -they don't bother with that stuff. And most cheaters don't want to have to PAY to do it, no matter how insignificant the $ is - remember -cheaters are trying to get something for nothing most of the time -they don't bother with all the crap these guys who posted here do. These guys who got together and cheated on AL -seriously -they have an ax to grind -a point to make -and they think they've made it -obviously they haven't. AL is growing by leaps andbounds and is very successful - and the members are happy with the service.
I'm also very curious to know what Knaddison does with his web business? He creates databases correct? Is there some kind of connection there? Was there? Why would a company that creates "databases and search engines" not like Angie's List so much they would go to all this trouble? And why does google always show this site in 4th place -exact same spot -every time on google searches made for Angie's List? I'd love to have the answers to those questions!
oh hai
I create websites, not databases. The websites are based on databases, but a website is not a database. The connection is stated at the top of my post:
A friend of mine asked me what I think. No more, no less. I don't work for nor have I applied for a job for AL or a competitor. People often ask me what I think about technology topics because I have a good sense about technology and internet trends.
Regarding "go to all this trouble" - I don't understand what the so-called "trouble" is. I wrote a blog post about a topic that a friend asked me to write. Then hundreds of people commented on it. I responded to some of the comments. I don't see much "trouble" here.
Google shows this page in a variety of locations on their search engine results page, though often it is #4. Why? Ask them ;)
Angie's List
I love Angie's list. I have used them many times to find local repair people. So far, I have not been disappointed. I signed up on line and never had to speak to a salesperson from Angie's list.
I tried a competing listing service for information and that service kept calling me, even though I explained that I just planning the repairs. That service only wanted to make appointments for me and seemed annoyed that I wasn't doing the work right now.
Why Angie's List doesn't "suck"
I can guarantee you that every review is processed by a real live person reviewing each claim. They are tireless in their search to weed out companies and reviews that are on the List falsely. Do some research.
And how long have you worked
And how long have you worked for Angie's List?
Angies list does suck!
So what if every review is real. The point is this is it is a rip off. You pay to join and if you want to look in another city you have to pay another fee. This service should cover the entire State or regional area you are located in without extra cost. Then on top of that it is NOT user friendly. If you seek information about a subject it keeps taking you in circles. What a load of hype this whole experience was. BEWARE ANGIES LIST !
I AGREE~~ It SUCKS!!
I was shocked at the cost of being a customer on their site? like they don't have advertising revenue? And it won't allow me to start looking for comments on building contractors near my own small hometown because I'm in DC. Oh, and BTW, it's a lot more than $5 a month, it seems like they wanted almost $7. doesn't seem like much until you multiply that by 12. But, they have other sign-up fees you can agree to for the long term. It isn't a huge deal for me, my grandfather was and my father is a contractor, so I'll already be hooked up when my husband and I each retire from the military and finally settle down where my family lives. I just wanted to get a jump on the process and start researching who I was going to hire to take care of different aspects of building our permanent home. The family will be doing most of it, but, I want some extra hands to take care of some of the fine detail work. Wish me luck!!!!
Angie's list DUBIOUS
Maybe its fine if you live in New York or some place where its been running for a long time. I live in West palm Beach and its of marginal value. They have very few listings. Nothing for upholsterers, nothing for furniture repair, almost nothing (they added names on their own) for window replacement. So unless you live in a place where they have a lot of listings, don't bother.
different cities
New YOrk is a huge market - West Palm Beach is a tiny market.
Angies List Sucks
If a "legitimate" business wanted to spoof good reviews of themselves, they'd have to open at least half a dozen email accounts/home addresses/ et c.; all subject to random or periodic verification. (They do verify)
That's a separate membership fee for each address each month.
Why not just buy an ad, do a good job in the first place, and let word of mouth and Angie's List's legitimate customers take care of the rest?
You sound like the scammer to me. What are you afraid of?
What kind of idiot are you?
John, how fucking stupid are you that you say something so colossally moronic as
"You sound like the scammer to me. What are you afraid of?"
That's so idiotic it doesn't even make sense.
WHO is he scamming you god damned retard? He puts his NAME AND FACE on his reviews, and has answered many questions about his motivations. If you wanted to, you could probably find him in person pretty easily.
So, just exactly how fucking stupid are you?
From a contractor's point of view...
Angie's List is seen by some contractors as a valuable asset - until you have a customer with a disposition that will not ever be satisfied. This kind of individual is somewhat rare, thank goodness, but trust me they are an occasional "test" that every professional will encounter in probably every industry. It is troubling to think that your name, your credibility and your hard earned reputation can all be permanently damaged by someone who is having a bad day.
There is no notification by Angie's List to a business of the business' rating, which I take as meaning there is no appeals process. I have been listed on their site for three years and have never heard from them. That is, except to ask if I wanted to advertise on their site in the paid advertisement portion of the screen - which I thought to be odd considering I cannot pay to be listed. In my opinion this could lead to someone thinking that my name is there because someone other than myself put it there.
I as a business owner cannot access the information on Angie's List about my business, get this, unless I purchase a membership. I consider information about my business similar to my credit score, therefore I should be permitted to have access to such information.
What really "boils my potatoes" is that it is MY UNDERSTANDING that a potential customer, accessing information about me that I cannot access, can also see my personal credit report. My business is a sole proprietorship and therefore any credit information about my business is under my name. I consider this a major violation of my right to privacy and I believe Angie's List, if selling my personal credit information to the general public, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. At very least, they should be taken to civil court and held publicly accountable. There's a lawyer here in town that will get a phone call tomorrow (I just found out this evening about the credit report part).
Angie's List was started as a way of protecting the homeowner from the predatory or deadbeat contractor (and we all know there are plenty of them). Did it ever occur to the average homeowner that there are deadbeat and predatory consumers too? Somewhere in the process Angie's List has become a sort of credit bureau that can be used, unintentionally on behalf of Angie's List, to defame and perhaps even blackmail a business owner by a person with an axe to grind. I hope "Angie" realizes this and corrects it. In the meantime, the credit reporting is going way overboard. And this coming from a guy with a very nice credit score.
In all fairness, industries use the credit bureaus unfairly to keep people who don't play the debt game by the rules from advancing in life. For instance, you shouldn't need to know a person's credit score if you are hiring them to work in, oh say, a big box type of discount store! We'll save that topic for another site :)
Wrong
You are wrong about so many things. Angie's list does send businesses their reports. They wouldn't even post one of my reports without contacting the vendor first. Subscribers can't see any credit history of companies! What weed are you smoking?
A Community Based Alternative to Angie's List & ServiceMagic
I've used ServiceMagic and have heard first hand complaints from Contractors about ServiceMagic. Your post about Angie's list shows that Angie's list also has some drawbacks. I just launched a site called ContractorSolutionNetwork.com whose goal is to let the community speak and identify the best Pros. Pros can respond to all reviews, good and bad. Let the dialog begin!
ContractorSolutionNetwork.com brings Pros & Homeowners together. Pros can find new business for free. Check us out @ http://ContractorSolutionNetwork.com.
Contractor Solution Network helps Roofers, Dry Wallers, Landscapers, Architects, HVAC, Carpenters, Plumbers, Electricians, and more. If you're a home service professional, you should be on ContractorSolutionNetwork.com.
dont waste your time on ContractorSolutionNetwork.com
Um, dude, your site sucks bad. my zip put me in china...
zero contractors.. go figure... Thanks for the lame link. Good luck on keeping it running.
ContractorSolutionNetwork.com Is New And Improving
To Anonymous,
ContractorSolutionNetwork.com is a new business that is trying to help Pros & Homeowners by creating a community where Pros can find new business and Homeowners can find the right Pro for their needs. Yes, there are many zip codes that do not have Pros in them. We're working on remedying that and welcome help. We're not a community, not a deep pocketed firm like Angieslist and ServiceMagic. It is also possible that there is a bug. If that's the case, please use the contact form on the site to let us know.
If you want to see a free alternative to Angieslist and ServiceMagic, then let Pros know about ContractorSolutionNetwork.com. We're here to help Pros & Homeowners and always welcome feedback on how to make the ContractorSolutionNetwork.com community better for all.
Cheers,
Rich
Absolutely. Angie's list is
Absolutely. Angie's list is a worthless sham, it's biased, and ignores the reality of the rare but damaging crazy consumer. I would never pay or advertise with them.
Example: We had a potential customer call us (thank god we never did business with him) who posted a scathing report based on misinformation and malicious intent. He failed to confirm a tentative (to be confirmed) appointment. When he did not confirm we made numerous attempts to reach him - he did not answer his phones. He then called a little after at the appointment time and asked where we were, he then proceeded to verbally abuse the office staff, then myself. Turns out that he was having a personal crisis, so he took his own personal problems out on us, - now we have all great reports, - plus this one mean scathing hateful angry report from a mentally disturbed stranger .
We never even met the guy. A non- customer had a negative impact on us - and we did nothing wrong. Unbelievable!. It almost makes us want to boycott angies customers altogether - because the potential for the rare nut-case damaging your business is so great. there is no winning - angies should be shut down. .. and held liable for their malicious reports' damages.
problem is, loss of business is almost impossible to prove.
Angie's List Sucks
Angie's List also has an automatic renewal policy for those using credit cards.
There's no communication with them on the renewal -- they just ding your card.
When I called to complain, they blithely told me that I had agreed to it in the membership agreement, and they didn't understand what the problem was.
However, they did offer to make a refund.
I agree that many of the reviews are biased -- contractors who are really pretty lousy have great reviews, and I haven't had much luck finding good contractors on Angie's List.
The policy for auto renew only adds to the questionable image. I think asking your friends is a much better way to go.
Angie's List
1st Question - Do you own a home?
2nd Question - Have you ever bought a home in a new community? In other words, have you ever moved across the country to a new place where you have no idea who might provide the best service in a particular category?
Having bought homes numerous times in new places, Angie's List is at least a starting point. It paid for itself about 10 times over when we had to replace our furnace last October. We got bids from Angie's lists top 3 Heating/Cooling repair and installation listings. The lowest bidder happened to also be #1 out of about 30 listings on the List. The Company was outstanding, fixed an existing circulation problem the other 2 had missed, and still came in $600 under the next lowest bid.
If you don't own a home or you own one in a community where you've lived for a long period of time, you don't need this service. But for those of us new to a community with no solid history or background on home repair type businesses which are notoriously the most unscrupulous, Angie's List is better then just blindfolding yourself and throwing a dart at the yellow pages which is what we would have been left to when we purchased our new furnace.
By the way - I'm a construction professional - so I have some knowledge of building systems - and even at that - going through the yellow pages for residential type services, making the calls, and asking the questions you need to ask to sort out the good and bad is incredibly time consuming. I'll pay Angie's List $60 bucks a year to narrow the list for me.
Your husband & you are stupid.
Why don't you use the BBB. It's free for customers and gives you complete history. Your a plant for Angies list or really stupid.
Stand by my Comments
Anyone who writes "Your husband and you..." should not be calling others stupid.
Regardless, I am in the midst of $150,000 home remodel and using a number of contractors found on Angie's list since my husband and I are still farily new to this area. Things are going remarkably well at about 30% through. For example, the Fireplace Contractor found on Angies List is done. They completed the removal of the old fire place and complete install of new with a larger flue up through 3 floors of the house, perfectly executed, clean, quick, done in 4 days.
I bid the remodeling project work to both Angie's List and non-Angie's List contractors. About 50% of the work is being done by Angie's List contractors. Most of the other 50% were referred by Angie's List contractors when I pre-bid interviewed them for the project. So at this point, once again, I feel that I've gotten my money's worth for the next 3 years which is my subscription level.
No, I am not an Angie's List employee. I am architect who works for a Chicago Firm and travels from my home (not Chicago) to company sites across the country. I needed a database of potential "good" firms as a starting point for my project. I didn't have a network of "co-workers" in this community to gather data from. My husband's co-workers (he and they are all soooo "stupid" as Academicians at the top university in the country in their field) are not particularly verse on construction.
“Your husband and you
"Your husband and you ..." is grammatically correct. However, "your a plant" is not.
"Your husband and you..."
Sorry, not to be picky, but "Your husband and you..." is not correct gramatically. In this case the first person had it been used is the word "I". However, the writer did not refer to himself. He used only the second person (you) and the third person (your husband). The rule is this: When 2 or more personal pronouns/nouns in the singular number are connected by "and," the second person precedes the first and third, and the third person precedes the first. In this case, since there is no first person, the second person (you) precedes the third person (your husband).
For example:
You and I (second precedes first)
You and your husband (second precedes third)
You and your husband and I (second precedes third precedes first)
and the obvious
Your husband and I (third precedes first)
Sorry - - too much sentence diagramming in my past.... :-)
But you are correct - I wasn't paying attention to the spelling since the grammar issue had caught my attention....
Not sorry to be picky
"Sorry, not to be picky, but "Your husband and you..." is not correct gramatically"
You are wrong.
I have no idea why people like you who clearly don't know what the fuck they're talking about always pipe up during these discussions.
YOU ARE WRONG.
Get over it, and stop grammar trolling.
Grow Up!
My God there are some condescending assholes visiting this site! Kicking around what is and what is not grammatically correct - please! Pathetic, really. If you were really that bright, you wouldn't need to point it out.
LOL
I agree with the smart woman (I'm a working class man) who corrected the person's grammar. In our society, you don't call someone stupid if you're less bright than the person you're challenging. Most of us 12-year educated folks can hide behind our limited knowledge of English, but to challenge someone on an open forum when grammatic aptitde is being questioned is pretty dumb, and funny too.
You shouldn't
"I agree with the smart woman (I'm a working class man) who corrected the person's grammar. "
Then you're stupid too, because she was wrong.
Dear Larry,
Confused
Who is Larry?
It is "you're" not "your"
It is "you're" not "your" really stupid.
The BBB is the biggst scam on
The BBB is the biggst scam on the planet. I once got ripped off by a BBB registered "Platinum" member. All BBB did during the dispute was act as a middleman and forward our (the company's letters and my) letters back and forth to each other. That is it, nothing more. They did absolutely nothing to actually take a proactive role and choose sides etc. Also, a lot of the information that the company provided to BBB when they registered with them was bogus including how long they had been in business and the fact that they were not even licensed to do business in the state. After I informed the BBB of these facts, the BBB still allowed the company to retain their "Platinum" status and my complaint never even showed up. BBB is nothing more than a false sense of security. BEWARE!!!!!!
Agreed. We used an internet
Agreed. We used an internet company, Lighting Universe, which is approved by BBB and got ripped off.
BBB is the biggest scam
This is absolutely true. As a business owner in the replacement window field, I have had frequent contact with my local BBB office. I am no longer a member as of mid 2008. I have a great rating with the BBB, but I disagree with their policies and procedures. The public falsely thinks that the BBB is there for their protection. The BBB is just like any other business: profit driven. My first complaint is that 2 people who did not buy any product or service with my company were allowed to make complaints due to advertising issues. My ads are the same ones approved by the BBB and run in their local member directory. My second complaint is that there is a direct conflict of interest when a competitor of my company is the Chairman of the Board of Directors. That was a really hard year! Overall, my company has 3 complaints in the last 36 months. Pretty great when we have completed over 2800 jobs in that time period.
You are correct about the BBB
Many, many years ago, I went to a business that was using bait-and-switch tactics. I called the Better Business Bureau of Houston to register a complaint. The woman I spoke to was extremely firm: "We do not take complaints against members, only against non-members. I'm sorry, that company is a member. Thank you. Good bye."
I recently saw an article in the Houston Chronicle which detailed this exact same behavior, but it was within the last 2 years. They haven't changed in, what, 30 years?
Since all you have to do to become a member, and therefore protect yourself from any complaints no matter how you misbehave, all you have to do is pay the membership fee. Nothing else. That makes the BBB a protection racket. Plain and simple. The BBB in other cities may not operate this way...but you have no way of knowing unless you call your local BBB and ask to place a complaint against a member. Then and only then will you know if they are honest.
Angieslist AND the BBB suck!
I can only agree with the previous posters. The BBB in each city is a franchise, which is sold for a lot of money, because a BBB is a cash cow forever. A well -developed BBB can have many thousands of "members" paying $500-800 each every year for the privilege of a $0.02 sticker you can put on your trucks or on your storefront. Our local BBB grosses somewhere around four million every year, every year, for providing the stickers and a website listing (plus of course the telemarketers' sales commissions.). I estimate the owner is clearing several million every year. (Of course, he had to come up with the millions required to buy the franchise in the first place).
In recent years, the BBB has become increasingly desperate with the arrival of similar scams such as AngiesList, Service Magic, Yelp and all the other referral sites. Six months ago, they started sending our company postcards saying they had received "18" enquiries about our company. The next month we got a card saying they had received ""22" inquiries about our company. This in a very slow month when we only got perhaps 10 phone calls from all sources. Simply not possible. To add insult to injury, the postcards are obviously a sales pitch, and we are already members!
I called them and asked them where they got these figures from, and to basically prove what they were alleging. Buck got passed, promised phone call back. never heard from them. I called again to complain--no response.
It is true that many older consumers think that the BBB is some kind of federally-funded consumer protection agency, when it is an absolutely 100% private, for-profit business. The BBB's problem is that younger people--the future--don't know what the BBB is and/or don't trust it, and they use other sources. But the older business people still think it's a cheap seal of approval and keep coughing up the dough.
Greggles--you need a new forum. The BBB needs to be exposed as much as AngiesList, if not more so.
St. Louis BBB Employee Response
Speaking only for myself, as an employee with the St. Louis Better Business Bureau office, we take complaints daily against accredited businesses. This year alone, our office has expelled at least 18 businesses for violations of our accreditation standards. We have had multiple requests from businesses with low grades asking to be accredited with the BBB, but have had to reject those requests because of their low grades. If there is anyone who would like additional information about the operation of the St. Louis BBB, you may email me directly at tpc1@stlouisbbb.org. Sincerely, Bill Smith, Trade Practice Investigator, BBB ST. Louis.
Wrong
BBB doesn't give anything close to a complete history. BBB simply tells you if they have had any complaints about a company - no details and no positive reports either.
Sevicemagic
I can not comment on Angie's List because I never belonged to Angie's List and I won't ever belong. I can comment on Servicemagic and no company sucks as much as Servicemagic. The are a false and fradulent advertising company and that is exactly what they are. They charge the incompetent contractors that they give leads to so that they can come out to your home and rip you off. I hired someone thru Sevicemagic and with all my complaints and even after they sent someone out to my home to inspect the bad work that the contractor did. Servicemagic's representative agreed to everything that I had stated all the work that was done was horrible. I had to hire someone else after losing $5,000.00 dollars on one of their contractors. After all that they are still advertising for the slime ball. They never even printed my review they only print the good ones. As long as the slime ball contractor keeps paying them to send him leads it really doesn't matter that I lost $5,000.00. I actually could of sued but it isn't easy. I had several contractors tell me even one of Servicemagic's representatives say that all the work had to be redone, but no one wants to be called to court and have to take time out from work and you need three written statements from three contractors. After 3 1/2 months of being tortured by this rotton contractor I really did not want anything else to do with him or the scum company Servicemagic. I do not know if you could mention the Contractor's company name but it is Ecuasolutions USA. The owner use to be in business with a different name but with Servicemagic backing him he will always get business whether he is any good or not, so he probably will not have to change his company name again.
angie's
so true. service magic is false info for anyone out there. your best bet is asking your neighbors and local fire department (who is more honest than a fire fighter?) for recommendations.
Unethical contractors
If a person has a problem with work done by a licensed contractor they should contact the state licensing board. I believe they have up to 10 years to do so (here in California). The board at least in California is in favor of the person who hires the contractor and the contractor is forced to pay for the job to be completed correctly at no charge to the customer.
CA Contractors License Board
Good luck getting the license board to do ANYTHING on your behalf. They are way too understaffed to handle the volume of complaints they get and, given California's budget crisis, their backlog will only get worse. They can sometimes help, if there is an obvious legal or code violation by the contractor. (They do not automatically favor the consumer, as your post implies.) And, even if they do agree with you the consumer, they have no way to force the contractor to return your money or redo the job, apart from revoking the contractor's license. If the contractpr is a shyster, he or she won't care.
stop complaining, you should
stop complaining, you should not have gone with the cheap unlicensed contractor. Let me guess, ...you also had a hard time communicating with them? typical pay the least expect the most - u get what u pay for
Another reason Angie’s
Another reason Angie's List sucks is that when you post a review, the person/company you are reviewing gets the report, AND YOUR FULL NAME. I don't know about you, but I live in a small town. I have an important negative review I wanted to leave on Angie's List, but didn't want the realtor in question to get my name since she is a family friend (not of mine). So, if all Angie's List wants is positive feedback, I guess that would work, but for honest, negative feedback, I feel you should be allowed to have your privacy protected.
Angies list gives out full name of person with complaint
No they do not. I have had someone post a nasty report against my company and tried to find out how to correct the problem, they will not give you the name. But they will however, or so they say, contact that person and see if they would like to work it out with you. So here you are, on "THE LIST", trashed and have no idea why. If they do not want to work it out, you have a bad report and that is the end of it, you must live with it.
InteriorLiving.com started accepting services on thier site!
I'm in real estate and Interior Living has a better domain name than Angies and they are going to be doing the same as Angies list for free. Their site really has really evolved in the last year it might not look like much but after they skin the site more people will take them seriously. I am retiring this year because of the weak economy but Its probably been the best site for leads that I didn't have to pay a dime for. Its sites like this that will push Angies list out. Maybe not today but I give it 2 years and they will exceed Angies list.
http://www.interiorliving.com
More power to them
Good response here. And in my opinion, the word sucks does suck! And if Angie's list is helping others and a vast majority of users enjoy it. Then more power to them.
Not only are you an idiot...
" And in my opinion, the word sucks does suck!"
Not only are you an idiot, but a hypocrite as well.
The best part, however, is that no one cares about your opinion, primarily because you suck.
Reply to comment
Jenny,
How is your Angie's List stock doing? I agree 100% with the OP.
Anon Ymous
"I will survive"
Hey I said the very same thing when I began to hear all of the idiotic propoganda for the company.
I also said to myself: "screw angie and her list". SOunds like just another stupid service inveted to make money from very little effort.
I have survived this long making my own decisions and hiring services based on my own intuition, I think Ill continue to survive on my own, and keep my 5 bucks in my pocket.
PS Im a business owner, and I havent had to do one bit of advertising in the past 7 years, still receiving more calls than I can handle. I must be doing something right.
Have fun kiddies.
Bravo
I ended up on this site through a search for "Angie's List". I thought I'd look for a service company here in Orlando, and didn't realize that "A.L." requires paid membership. No thanks! As Mr. Iota, I am perfectly capable of doing my own research, and CERTAINLY will never pay to read anonymous referrals.
I too am a successful businessman that has not ever paid one thin dime on advertising. My sole expense in that area was $15.00 for 1000 business cards about ten years ago, of which I still have 500, and I don't even hand those out anymore. I stay very busy, and it is common knowledge that I only work for people who have been referred by an existing client. That's right, I'm the one who chooses, NOT the client. Ahh, the satisfaction of true artisanship! As Mr. Iota stated so very astutely, "Have fun, kiddies."
Privacy Violation
I subscribed to Angies List and found them a useful resource. Then I received a phone call from a third party company asking my why I hadn't posted reviews and "confirming" my personal information such as address, phone number, etc. I checked their privacy policy which states clearly that they won't give out my info without my permission. When I called them on that they said that their lawyers tell them that they didn't violate the policy, so nothing will change (except maybe their privacy policy). So much for protecting the consumer!
get happy
To all who have written here. Forget Angies list,BBB and all the others. If You want good satisfying work done simply do not pay a contractor until it is done and You are satisfied. Works for Me.
I like that attitude,
I like that attitude, however, do you want a Lame contractor working to futher mess up the project time and time again?
How many times can your home/fireplace/project take mistakes before being totally hosed?
and hence why we are looking at AL and BBB and Servicemagic...
a way to find a contractor that is established and does a great job the first time....
you could always check with your church, alot of referals quickly...
Why would I trust strangers?
Considering that most people can not write a concise scope of their requirements for a specific service and therefore can't objectively of subjectively rate a service, why would I waste my time with Angie's list? You are asking me to pay to trust the advice of strangers who are most likely idiots? There are going to be capable service providers out there who get bad ratings and don't know how to game the system, and then there will be crummy service providers out there that get good ratings from spineless consumers who are too afraid to provide objective information or on a crusade to buy local only.
Lastly, considering the total money I spend for services each year, $60 a year is not economical.... let's use a plumbing emergency that costs $300 in one year (I just called Roto Rooter last Friday). If I've spent $120 over two years to get a no-name plumber from Angie's list, that plumber would have to charge only $180 for me to break even, offer the same guarantees, and had to have been available in 30 minutes which is how long it took the Roto Rooter guy to get to my house. Seriously doubt Angie's list can provide that.
Jenny, I don't know what kinds of services you and your husband are buying, but your money would be better spent paying for insurance to cover the bozos who are going to show up on your property to do work.
I agree
"You are asking me to pay to trust the advice of strangers who are most likely idiots?"
I agree, you are a stranger...
Jenny is right on. The
Jenny is right on. The author is being kind of douch-ey (another web standard).
Angie's List is not unbiased.....totally
Angie's list makes a strong case about only posting unbiased comments. This is not true. One example: the contractor I chose to do some work to my home, about $30,000 worth had a negative comment from someone who did not even hire them to do work on their home. In fact this woman gave the company an F, when the company didn't even give her a detailed estimate. The contractor had a feeling that this customer was trouble and did not want to work with, and apparently she figured that out and retaliated by giving him a poor score. This is SPITE. Not an unbiased review. And this is not fare.
Unfortunately, those customers who indeed need the advice for picking a good professional must wade through "biased" consumer reviews with whom they do not know the whole story and for which they do not know the motivation of the reviewer.
Anyone with a brain who is using Angie's List must understand the risks. First, Angie's list does accept advertising from Contractors and other Professionals. This creates revenue, which creates a conflict of interest. Secondly, the reviews are not unbiased. A shrewd professional can and will figure out how to manipulate reviews of upset customers, and angry customers especially those in the wrong will use this media as retaliation. Thirdly, any professional doing a large volume of business with many customers probably has more satisfied customers than angry ones. A few reviews is hardly a substantial sample size to make a wise decision or correlate the level of service provided by the Professional.
My Two Cents
Adam
angie's list
Hey, Jennie Gray! While your experience may be good with them, if you google Angie's List you will find overwhelming opposition to your experience. Virtually everyone who has signed up once doesn't sign up again! When asked why, to a man they say it wasn't worth it, for a variety of reasons, but mostly because they felt the reviews were biased by the contractor being able to buy into the system for $350.
Angieslist does suck........
for you that is... I paid $5 and gave my business a great review then paid $5 and used the address of the suite next to me and gave myself another great review... awsome. what kinda of idiot consumer pays money to give a review on services when theres free places to go for that?? thanks you suckers...
Marisa responds to Jenny..
Hi Jenny. I have had a bad experience with Angie's List. One day I went on site to check it out, just to see if someone had rated me for my painting services. Someone did, someone i had never heard of. Come to find out, they were fake customers, and I acquired proof of that by calling 'Company Connect' at Angie's List.. (not that they admitted they were fake.)Bottomline--Angie's List only cares about the $$. Doesn't matter whose name is on the credit card when they take that $5.00 fee..(another person can hide behind another's name.) Who knows who the 'customer' was..maybe someone i had a bitter break-up with, or someone just being nosey. A biased, or bogus review can cost me my career, or one that i apply toward...i.e. An employer types my name into their company computer -this age of technology isn't always a good thing. ANyway, I am no longer painting, yet Angie's List has a 'policy' that keeps me on their list. I have since sought legal counsel. Hopefully, this won't ever happen to you if you become a contractor. Lucky you're a customer as you make it sound.
Marisa
I was right!
"A sucker is born every minute." Angie's list has made a lot of money proving the point off of people like you.
I Second That - Angie's List DOES Sux - Impossible to cancel
Suck is not too strong of a word for Angie's List. I, too, was initially impressed with Angie's List. What you don't realize when you first sign up is that they say you can cancel at anytime but THERE IS NO WAY/ LINK ON THEIR WEBSITE TO CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT/ MEMBERSHIP.
I used Angie's List for one contractor. Now, because continued billing via Angie's List, I am paid several payments for that one referral. (And the contractor sucked despite having glowing reviews on Angie's List - I think the contractors themselves (friends/ family members) can get in there and pump up their 'customer reviews.')
I am not a wierdo that spends lots of time complaining about companies - I am an attorney that doesn't have time to be disputing this stuff. I will never use Angie's List again. I have e-mailed Angie's List and called to try to get my account canceled. I am disputing my last payment via Paypal.
ENTER ANGIE'S LIST AT YOUR OWN RISK.
You are soooooooooooooo
You are soooooooooooooo right ... YOU do need to get over it! AND yes you are more than immature, but you certainly have that right. I know the truth hurts YOU and no doubt you will have something to say about this too! Ahhhhhh YOU never answered any of the questions posed ... just running your mouth. Go figure!
Jenny Gray
what?
So, in the same sentence where you call me immature you use all caps and repeat the same letter a bunch. OMG, U R cleerly teh mo$t maTuR3!
Never answered any of what questions posed? You posted your comments. 7 Hours later you are amazed that I haven't responded. I respond a day later. Wow.
The clock is ticking - you have 7 hours to respond :)
You answered...
greggles, we're watching, and you did answer the questions, and did so in a credible, mature way. Keep up the good work.
First of all, I was positive
First of all, I was positive you are the type of personality that has to have the last word. I was correct that you had to respond ... even if it didn't make much sense to anyone but a select few. Beyond that it is further apparent you suffer from a severe reading disability. My time is more important than continuing to point out to you various issues. Again, you appear to have a severe reading disability. In addition, it's patently obvious you have your very own definitions when it comes to words like "standard, bias, logically" etc. My husband is a profiler and gets a kick out of your posts too. However, we both have better things to amuse ourselves with then your pitiful posts.
Jenny Gray
glad I provided some entertainment
Ok, so it's good to know that I provided some entertainment for you and your "profiler" husband. You also made the 7 hour cutoff which proves that you have less to do than I!
I like how you criticized me for not responding fast enough and now criticize me for being a person who "has to have the last word" in a discussion.
I'm not alone in my beliefs about this - my site was recently cited in discussion about angies list policies on wikipedia so it seems pretty clear that it's not just me living in my own world with my own definitions of standard, bias, and logically. Perhaps you are ONUnicorn and that's what got you so upset to begin with? Or perhaps you are one of the Angies List PR people who wrote the original wikipedia article?
It doesn't matter to me as long as an explanation of the flaws with angies list's policies stays available.
ad hominem attacks
Can't make an argument, so attack greggles. Pointless.
Um, no
"My husband is a profiler and gets a kick out of your posts too. However, we both have better things to amuse ourselves with then your pitiful posts."
The fact that you've responded so frequently, and this time, within 7 hours, seems to belie your claims.
And as an aside, your husband is not a profiler, you do NOT have better things to do, and you are an obvious liar.
Seriously, WTF is wrong with you that you have time and desire to lie on the internet?
Why Angie's List sucks
It would be better if Angie's List rated only upon customer reviews, but they don't. They give their own ratings "based on a local expert." Unfortunately, I learned too late to ignore Angie's List ratings, and I am paying the price.
The "local expert" is an Angie's List employee ...
... doing Google searches. So, by the transitive property of math, anyone who does a Google search is a local expert. I'll keep my money, thank you.
THANK YOU FOR THIS WEB SITE
Im a small buiness owner and would have to say that Angie's List work ethics are a disgrace and are dishonest. AVOID DOING BUISNESS WITH ANGIE'S LIST. A Midwest Company
unsubstantiated reviews of angies list
Well, it doesn't serve anyone to just say things like their "work ethics are a disgrace and are dishonest". That's an unsubstantiated claim without a justification for it. Frankly, I'm contemplating removing your comment because I don't want this to become a thread for everyone with an ax to grind to defame Angies List. If you have something bad to say about them, do it with a little explanation and try to be impartial.
Let me be clear about this Angies List is a good service and provides quality reviews to many people. Their current business model has some holes in it, in my opinion, and I would like to either see improvements or the success of other rating systems.
So, I guess I'll leave the above comment here as a warning to others - if you post a terse review (positive or negative) of Angie's List without an unbiased argument for why you feel that way I will delete your comment.
18 MONTHS
Did you you that a consumer has up to 18 months to complain on a company? So this means that the consumer can sleep on it for 18 months and then one day (18 MONTHS LATER) thats 1 yaer and 6 months make a complaint do you really think this is good work ethics ?
statute of limitations on bad customer service
That's an interesting point - I'm not sure how long a the lag period should be. If it were up to me a customer would be able to review your company at any point.
I guess you can argue that 18 months later the company has probably changed and customer experiences are no longer valid but many companies stay the same more than they change. And really the age of the complaint/recommendation should just be included in the weighting of the review. So, if it were up to me recent reviews would matter more than reviews about an experience that has long passed.
Of course, if it were up to me the reviews would be based upon input from my friends/family (and their friends/family) rather than just making them reliant on random humans.
[note: in case it wasn't clear - both of the comments in this sub thread about their poor service from "Anonymous" are from the same email/IP which is probably the same person.]
DOES NOT MATTER
It does not matter what the issue is to Angie's List if it's within 18 months they will list it.In fact they will list anything a consumer wants to say about a company , they can make up a lie and Angie's List will list it. This is more then a interisting point this is a serious problem that Angies list needs to fix . They Should Learn From BBB .Infact I will be Fileing A comlaint With the BBB About Angie's List.
I have a story that would shock you about Angie's List.
deadline for review
Greggles, I urge you to reconsider your opinion about no deadline for review. Consider this. Industry standard in construction services is a 12 month warranty. This means that if there are any construction defects or equipment failures, the contractor is required to make repairs free of charge. I'm not a general contractor, but as an Architect, I see that my contractor colleagues are "married" to quite a few projects at all times. When something fails after 16 months lets say, and the Owner calls the contractor for repair, there will be a fee. But if the Owner can hold the threat of an Angie's List slashing over his/her head indefinitely, it will unfairly impact the contractor. So, 18 months is not the right amount of time either, unless the contract warranty period is written as such.
M Baker
http://www.bakerad.com
Angie's List should not charge
I commend you on your spirited website and the way all of you “Mix it up.” Being able to express our differing opinions is one of the things that makes America the greatest nation in the world.
If you’re trying to help people by providing information that prevents unsuspecting consumers from making a horrible purchasing mistake, I believe that it is inappropriate to require payment even to support your dissemination efforts. I know exactly what I’m talking about because I am going broke along with several others trying to bring just such advise and warnings to the entire world.
The larger the cost of any service provided to a consumer, the greater the potential for devastating effects to said consumer when all hell breaks lose and the consumer realizes that they have been fleeced. For most carbon based life forms, your home is the largest consumer based service you will ever purchase and when its defective right from the start, you are basically screwed with no recourse of any kind.
We have decided to fight back at http://www.justiceandlight.com/
Continue success with your website as you are providing an invaluable and much needed outlet for consumers even if your efforts are not appreciated by some of the people posting here.
SS
I suspect Angie's List has a
I suspect Angie's List has a rapid response team to respond to criticism on the web. Everywhere you turn on the web that discusses it you find glowing reviews that sound like they were written by a marketing person and critism based on logic accompanied with mindless personal attacks on the critic.
I think "sucks" is a good description for the value of Angie's List even if all their reviews are legitimate, which I doubt they are. They claim to have 250 categories in 124 cities and receive 15,000 reviews a month according to referenced cited in their Wikipedia article. Doing the math, it will take on average about two months for Angie's List to get a single review in each single category within a city. If the category has 12 businesses listed, it will take two years to get a single review on each of them.
They claim to have a "grapevine" with the 500,000 members, (not "millions") and in all likelihood this includes those just checking it out with a free membership. Anyway with 15,000 reviews a month, that means that the average Angie's List member submits a report about once every three years. By the time they do collect enough reviews to mean anything, many if not most of the reviews will be outdated.
I don't think that sample size is anywhere near what it needs to be to make it any more reliable than tossing a dart on a list from the yellow pages. Personally, I think I'll get more value by spending my $50 on lottery tickets than an Angie's List subscription.
I do give them an "A" for self-promotion. They have picked up an amazing level of publicity, but I suspect advertising with the news media and their affiliated companies makes it a lot easier to get them to write good stories about you and turn a blind eye to your shortcomings. The rapid response team is pretty smart too, except it only works for a while.
Its sad when people make
Its sad when people make comments about topics they dont understand or even really know about. You people must dont do very good research. I use Angie's List and it has proven to be a wonderful service. You can save money and time by using this company. The $5 monthly subscription fee pays off if you use someone that offers a coupon anyways, plus I would much rather see what people have to say about a company then take a wild guess with the yellow pages. For a service company to have a nice ad in the yellow pages all they need is money, and believe me, the companies with the most money dont always do the best job. You must not be a homeowner.
Sounds like snakeoil to me
Looks like you are changing the subject, but I'll follow along
There are plenty of sources where you can get reviews of questionable reliability other than Angie's List. Yahoo, Yelp, Judy's Book, Amazon, Google (I think), InsiderPages Zipingo, many online yellow pages, someone's "preferred contractors" list, to name a few. Except on those sites, I don't have to pay anything to see them. If I couldn't get a recommendation from someone I trust, I personally would use one of Home Depot's guaranteed contractors rather than the yellow pages or Angie's List I know the contractors pay to be on that list, but at least I get a guarantee from Home Depot if things go bad and they do sometimes, but Home Depot does make good on its guarantee. I doubt Home Depot would keep problem contractors on the list very long if they kept having to payout when they screw up.
I think you are really naive if you think those coupons make it worth $50 a year. It reminds me of one of those people that thinks they get a good deal by buying something "on sale" or "half off the 'regular price' of $20" only to discover another place has the same item for $9 everyday. On a side note, Ebay is a pretty good source for measuring how good a deal is, but that just works for goods, not services.
The coupons don't make it worth it for several reasons. First, they are mostly repeating the same offers in other sources that you don't have to pay for. I'm a homeowner and I get tons of coupons and similar offers in my mailbox every day. Second, Angie's List lists service providers which typically give quotes for specific work. If you are using a coupon, they just won't be as flexible in their quote, thus your coupon is worthless, or least you have know way of knowing whether it actually saves you money or not. As you said, the point of Angie's List is to find reliable service providers, not necessarily the ones with the most money (the correlary to that is the ones that can afford to make the best offers). If you think it's worth it for the coupons, fine, but that's a tough sell, and Angie's List only brings that up when people point out the shortcomings of their main service.
I've logged on to Angie's List with a friend's account to checked it out (she tells me she's not renewing it). I saw about six contractors I'm was already familiar with. All had A's and B's, but three of those contractors absolutely "sucked" from my experience. I would never recommend them and know of several others in my neighborhood with similar problems with them. Needless to say, I would not purchase an Angie's List membership, (especially while my friend's membership still works). Maybe my experience with these contractors was unique, but it does tell me that a good rating on Angie's List probably doesn't mean much.
Are you part of the "Rapid Response Team"? Chad
Works for me
The first two years I used Angie's List, it more than paid for itself. The first time I used it, the movers gave me a financial break (10 free wardrobes on top of a great price for the move) that more than paid for my membership. The second year, the floor finishers I hired gave me such a great price, that the money I saved paid for two years with Angie.
Another big advantage to Angie's List - when you call a company, and mention that you got their name on Angie's List, you can almost hear the attitude change. They make sure you get their best team and the best service, because they know you are going to write them up, and they want a good review. It gives a nice power to the consumer.
I'd ask my neighbors and friends, but I get a much bigger picture from Angie's List, I often get a discount, and I tend to get really good customer service, with Angie's behind me.
I only have two regrets about Angie's List. First, I wish I was better about writing companies up. Once we had a conflict, because my husband, who was there, thought they were great, but when I got home and saw the work, I didn't agree. That was a hard review to write, so we never did. Should have.
My second regret is that I have hardly used them this year because there isn't much money for home improvement, but when I need someone, I'd much rather go to Angie's List than take a "pig in a poke."
Now Vonage - - - there's a company that REALLY sucks!!
Angie's list
Hi Everyone
I am in Saint Louis and I like Angie's list. We bought an older house and have had to do some major repairs. We haven't been in town long enough to have a network and know who is good and who isn't. It isn't perfect but it is a nice place to start. Some small businesses are clearly aware that they have a good reputation on Angie's list and get a lot of referrals from the list. I think that they are also aware that the work that is done will ultimately be rated on the list so there seems to be an incentive to continue to do good work. In Saint Louis there does seem to be a relatively robust database that is helpful in determining who should bid on work etc. If there is a better way I would be happy to save the $50/year. Seems similar to the Homeowners Club of America in a certain sense.
need your opinion
I own a home in the Twin Cities and am doing some upgrading. I have hired a few companies from flyers and the phone book and have had very poor service results. I have read and heard mixed reviews about Angies List and am considering joining, but do not know any one here that has used it and I don't know if it's worth the money. I recently searched the internet and found a free website that strictly qualifies all service companies before they can be listed on the site. It is a local company and just for our area in the Twin cities. It looks interesting and set up nice...and it's free. I would be interested in anyones opinion of this site and to see if you like it and would trust the criteria since you have viewed other sites like this to find good contractors. The website is www.theserviceguide.com Please let me know what your thoughts are on this free resource.
I agree with the anonymous
I agree with the anonymous poster on this one - it's a bit of a crap shoot and they are (like Angie's List) financially incented to drive your business to their businesses. Who knows if they are telling the truth about the quality of their review process.
Maybe you can sign up on Angie's List and see if theserviceguide.com is listed there ;) ?
Wrong
I live in the Twin Cities so I just checked out the service guide. It isn't free. It doesn't have anywhere close to the number of reviews and categories as Angies List.
The only plus I can see with
The only plus I can see with that site (theservice 4guide.com)is the fact that the service is free. Their "strict standards" don't seem all that strict to me, almost on par with saying "do you have a heartbeat?" They are telling you to just trust them, but their revenues come from the businesses.
They say they turn down more companies than they accept. If you believe that, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in. On the other hand, they could be a referral service created or financed by some of the businesses themselves to steer business their way, so they may turn down their competition. A lot of referral services work that way, unfortunately. I wouldn't expect much from them, but you never know I guess. Good luck.
It is sort of sad to read
It is sort of sad to read the previous two more skeptical comments about theserviceguide.com. In today's world where it is such a crapshoot, it is refreshing to see a company dedicated to trying to set things back on a straighter, more honest path. Not everyone in the world is out to get other people. This company doesn't seem to reflect anything but wanting to see things done right for the consumer, and they want to try and help. My recommendation would be to try the service and see for yourself. If it is free, you have nothing to lose. Remember, too, that you can always conduct your own "qualification" process. Their site even has information to help you do it yourself. See if you come up apples to apples. You probably have a better chance of things going right with theserviceguide.com than not.
I agree that it's better
I agree that it's better than nothing and I agree that you can always do the research for yourself. I think this is reasonable - to use Angie's list or theserviceguide.com as just another factor in the process of deciding which contractor is best.
But when you say that it's sort of sad that people are so skeptical, don't you think it's a bit ironic that you didn't leave your name and instead left the name as "Anonymous"? Talk about skeptical!
your opinion
Thanks for your opinion on www.theserviceguide.com I agree with you that it's nice that the service is free. Also, the trust factor is a question as it could be trusted only if the businesses are truely pre-qualified as they say. I did some homework and called a 4 of the companies on the list and they all said that they could not be listed until all qualifications where met including reference checks and proof of insurance...that's a good thing. I noticed that they do not have a way for consumers to give their feedback to the businesses and share it with other consumers. Do you think it would help this service gain further trust if they also allowed consumers to feedback on their individual service experience from the company they hired to do work for them? Then it would still be free,you would have good companies to choose from and it would also have a similar feature like an Angies list with the consumer gaining more information and trust with feedback available to share with other local consumers. What do you think? I'm planning on giving this service a try.
as I just wrote above,
as I just wrote above, services like theserviceguide.com can be a part of an overall picture of a company, but shouldn't (in my opinion) be the only part of it that you trust.
The only way to build real long-lasting trust in an online community is to use rating/ranking that is based upon the social network - not just anonymous reviews. If my mom or neighbor reviews a business I trust that more than some random person (who may be a shill for the company getting reviewed). That type of system where your online trust is based on your offline trust is the basis for the lijit social bookmarking and rating service and I think it will become a powerful force in areas like this over the new few years.
If theserviceguide.com used services like Lijit to build their rating/review network then they'd have something really powerful.
Give It A Try And See What Happens
You sound like you really want to try this service out. You should, but if you have any misgivings, go forth with caution and an open mind. A smart shopper does their own homework. If this service claims to qualify businesses pretty carefully, you will likely be in okay hands, but it wouldn't hurt to ask whichever contractors you hire for their credentials, as well. Do some of your own reference checking. If your experience IS positive, then you know you found a good contractor, plus you found an honest to goodness "for real" useful website you can use again in the future. It's worth giving it a try and see what happens. I've seen other sites similar to these. This one, for some reason, comes across professionally and with a nice, warmer local flavor. Personally, that appeals to me. I like that they are able to actually get to know the businesses they are representing. Too many of these sites don't really have any idea, really, who they are putting out there if they work from out of state. It is a hope and a prayer, that is, if they actually care. I get a sense the people behind theserviceguide actually do care. I think you will make out okay.
Objective? Or subjective
I have been in business for over 25 years. We have over 10,000 repeat customers who would rave about our service, we also probably have 100 past customers who we refused to do or wanted something for nothing who would be the type to get on Angies list and complain. It is a crap shoot! We go out of our way to please our customers and 99% of our customers are very happy with our service. Most people expect and demand good service or they would go somewhere else they WOULD not go on to a place like angies list and PAY to say that they received the service they expected in the first place!
thanks for your insights, ben
thanks for your insights, ben. I think that's exactly the kind of flaw that concerns me about these types of business models. They appeal to the angry minority, or the best friend of the business owner - both skewing the data from reality in their own ways.
Angie's List
I am a small business owner. In my opinion Angie's List is very good for the consumer and blatantly unfair to businesses. This may sound like sour grapes but my company is listed in 5 categories on Angie's List and we have an A+ rating in all categories and have been awarded with the Super Service Award in these categories for the last 4 years. Angie states that only 2% of the companies on the list receive this "honor".
Anyhow - the majority of the subscribers on the list are simply using the list to find reputable companies and this works well for all involved. It is the other small percent that have found they can use the list as clout to "blackmail" companies into providing free services. No one from Angies List inspects the work done but will print anything a home owner states. Even though a very clear contract is involved specifying the work Angie will still side with the home owner and if you do not do exactly what the homeowner wants you no longer receive referrals from the list or worse yet receive negative referrals....
And the advertising rates are ridiculous and there is a substantial increase every year....Splitting of territories, spin offs and yearly increases - ridiculous - Glad someone is finally grading the grader!! I give Angies List DDDDD
Anyhow it is a good scam for Angie and friends and does benefit the homeowners, but small business beware. There is a huge price to do business with Angie's List -- feels like dancing with the devil...............
Feels like Dancing with the Devil......
Small business beware! You will have no recourse if a crazy client posts a negative remark and a bunch of lies about you and your business -- "Angie" will only give lip service to your complaint and side with the client. Their "confirmation process" or dispute resolution is a joke. Also, often a "client" who is a relative or a friend of a competitor, may set you up so that you will have a poor review and in a small town all it takes is a couple of negative remarks for your business to be over and done with. Your good clients will have to join Angie's list to write a positive review and PAY $72.00 a year even if they don't give a hoot about Angie's list. This list has the right to exist, provides a fair service to the consumer, but it is like the Mafia. They have the upper hand and don't give a damn about your business as long as they make their money. They are protected by several laws related to freedom of speech on the Internet, but, hopefully, they are not protected by the wrath of God. They may be legal, but they operate immorally. While many homeowner have obviously benefitted, many small businesses, with a good reputation otherwise, have suffered. And they have to keep their mouths shut. And that's true: unscrupulous homeowners do blackmail service businesses and expect free services under the threat of being blacklisted on Angies'. A small business cannot survive under this climate - especially in a small town.
By the way: many thanks to Mr. or Mrs. KNADDISON who owns this website.
A Former Angies List Employee Speaks Out
Found this on houseblog:
I used to work for Angie's, and believe me, the line they give, and the way it actually works on the inside are NOT the same. Don't believe all the hype. In addition, they are a horrible company to work for. But, they can be a good resource to consumers, as long as you understand the information isn't 100% accurate or without bias.
if money is involved...
I am fifty years old, and I wish that I could believe in this perfect world of people just wanting to "help people." Maybe you can find that at church, but not on the internet, not matter what you try to "sell" yourself as. This Angie's list business is about money, and when money is the agenda, you must always ask yourselves if the data is going to be good. At 500,000 members and $60 a year each, that's $30,000,000! And on the way to the bank, they can tell themselves that they are "helping people," but really, would they care if they weren't, at that kind of income? And then, they charge businesses to have their listing upgrades, and get ad revenue. This is BIG money, so sorry folks, I am too old, and too cynical to believe in unbiased helpfullness, when that kind of money is being raked in. This is HUGE money, and common to all money making ventures, the person with cash to pay gets the attention, and the ones not paying don't get attention or written up. That applies to the customer who joins to angrily blow off steam, or to the business owner who "fakes" things, to get good reviews. It's likely that the satisfied customer doesn't waste $60 a year to tell anyone about a good experience. (Maybe good reviews should be free to post.) I wouldn't, I'd tell my friends and neighbors instead. That's the way it really works, and if everyone would just think about it, it makes sense. There is nothing like the recommendation of a trusted friend. Never has been, never will be.
Free contracting referrals for homeowners and GC's
What's wrong with Servicemagic.com?
What's right with it?
Aside from the fact that your comment screams "I'm the servicemagic.com head of marketing and I want to get us noticed on a page that's popular with people who dislike angieslist"
Your model is based upon a "contractors pay us, we 'pre-screen', and then consumers rate the contractor" right? So, the 'pre-screen' is going to be biased regardless of how hard you try to make it not be, the consumers rating the contractors will raise the same problems that some contractors have listed above (e.g. consumers can blackmail contractors and raise unreasonable problems), and there's still the problem of "why do I trust your screening vs. my friend or neighbor?" Trust links in real life are based on relationships. Why shouldn't online trust/recommendations be based on your real-life relationships as well?
Let me flip it back - how do you, anonymous poster, think servicemagic's model fixes the problems I identified with Angies List?
angies list & service magic
I have used Service magic contractor three times and could not be more satisfied.
I recently moved into a new house. I got estimates from 3 movers I took the one that appeared to be more credible,( not the lowest price). The movers were three hours late
the truck was too small and, they were one man short. The company was American Van Lines in Fort Lauderdale. They broke a mirrord headboard and immediatele wrote out a
company form and I got a copy. The claim amounted to $66.00 and was denied. Their man packed it, unpacked it and it was broken. I followed all the usual precautions that we are advised to take when engaging a contractor.Without Angies list or Service Magic we would have no recourse or,warning the public of unethical businesses.
well, you have lots of choices, really
You have at least three means of recourse:
So, why again do we need these sites inserting themselves into this process to take our money or the contractors money?
bbb
Our local BBB has no reviews or rating of companies. They merely tell you if someone has ever contacted them about a company. No details are shared. There are alot of crappy companies out there I want to know who someone would recommend. We have found Angie's list to be great for services where there are multiple reviews.
Service Magic rejects negative reviews
A friend of mine had a terrible experience with a contractor, and wrote a negative review of them and tried to post it on Service Magic, who refused to post it. They told him their customers are the businesses who advertise on Service Magic, and that they refuse to post negative reviews about their customers.
Service Magic sucks for a
Service Magic sucks for a different reason. The trouble with Service Magic is once you put a request in on that site you get inundated with sales calls from every company that does the work (and a few who don't) and they all claim to be great. The companies hate it too since they have to pay for the leads but then they have to compete against the salespeople from every other business who also paid for the lead. On top of that, the prospect quickly gets ticked off by all the sales calls. I don't think a good business would have anything to do with service magic, so what is left is what the customer gets.
Great money making racket for Service magic though.
Doggie Doo
My complaint is that when your favorite plumber took your dog out to do her business, she did it in my yard. Next time, have her take a dump in her own yard.
Honestly...Angie's List works for me
Honestly...I can't believe all the hubbub over Angie's List. Folks, what we're talking about isn't rocket science. Angie's List collects reviews from consumers and averages them. It's that simple. You either think it's worth the membership fee or you don't. For those of us who have found that Angie's List works...we'll keep paying our membership. I've been a member of Angie's List for two years. I can say from experience it's been worth it for me. Emergency plumbing problem on Labor Day weekend, Angie's List helped. Needed a tow truck to tow my car in at 7pm one evening, Angie's List helped. Needed an appliance repairman to replace the heating element in my dryer, again, I went to Angie's List. And my list could go on and on. Seriously, it's a chance to benefit from other people's experiences, without having to call five or six people about one contractor. You can quickly see the ratings, read the reviews and narrow down the hundreds, if not thousands, of unknowns you have when you need a contractor and need one quick. Angie's List works for me. It's that simple.
I have such a hard time believing....
...the comment by Lynn and so many others is genuine. If someone has had a great time with Angie's List, why would he/she spend time googling it looking for mentions in blogs or posts? I agree that this must be work done by a marketing agent. I am hard pressed to take the time to rate hotels, e.g., when I book a hotel through a site like hotels.com -- even if I have a VERY strong opinion about the booking. I got sucked in to reading this info. because I am trying to find out information about some weird exterior paint coating that lasts longer than my house will. Since Angie's List has such an effective marketing campaign, I googled it, and here I am (forty minutes later....)
I got sucked into the conversation also
I got sucked into the conversation also if you don't believe I'm real go to my website
http://www.portlandhousepainting.com or give me a call to have me look at your painting project in Portland Oregon. Our summer schedule is filling up. Angie's List hasn't contributed much business this summer but what they do is generally quality, informed customers. Unlike the yellow pages, for example.
Cheers,
Paul
A Fresh Coat Painting
Top quality painting – affordable prices
Paul Schroder 971-570-0261 Kurt Deppisch 503-484-8361
Email: freshcoat@portlandhousepainting.com Fax: 503-626-3114 CCB# 173646
PortlandHomePainting.com
Angie's List mails your name to businesses you review
For all of those who like Angie's List, did you know these facts:
(1) Angie's List mails your review, along with your name and address to the business you write the review for. I always thought this was anonymous, until I got a call from an angry business owner, complaining about the negative review I wrote about his company on Angie's List. I was astonished to learn Angie's List sent it to him!!! I can't believe Angie's List doesn't tell members this in a prominent place...it's in the fine print on their web site, and not even in the membership agreement.
(2) Angie's List has far fewer reviews than what they advertise. I could never find reviews for businesses I was interested in on Angie's List, so I counted how many they had. They advertised far fewer reviews than they actually had.
(3) Angie's List says only customers write reviews, but this isn't true. If you're a business owner and you get a negative review, Angie's List encourages you to get your "good" customers to write reviews. They give business owners monetary kickbacks for referring new members. To me, this is extremely unscrupulous. I just read an online comment by a business owner who said he bought 10 memberships for his customers so that they could write good reviews about him. This seems WRONG. The more I read internet reviews of Angie's List itself, the more appalled I become!!
I stand behind my reviews on Angies List
I don't think it's unreasonable that a contractor should recieve my name and address when I post a negative review. I am careful to be factual in my reviews and try to be as objective as possible. The reviews are taken from notes taken during my interactions with contractors. I have posted negative reviews and have never been contacted by the contractor but if I were, I would invite them to dispute any of the facts I presented.
To make a review anonymously is cowardly. One of the things I like about Angies List is that reviewers are not entirely anonymous.
if reviewing anonymously is cowardly, then I'm the cowardly lion
Not specifically to do with Angie's list, but I have to disagree that wanting to write a negative review anonymously is cowardly. I bought my first home at the end of last spring. Since then, it has been one repair after another. As a first time homeowner w/ a house that has turned into a money pit, I started this whole experience with checking out reviews on the web. I would check out reviews online but never actually wrote one. I learned quickly to take them with a grain of salt. I saw this posting hoping Angie's list might help, but the mixed reviews just warn me to take it with a grain of salt too. Being single in a new town with no one to really ask about home repair referrals locally, I finally reached a breaking point in my stress level. Within one month, I've had electrical problems, a busted water heater, plumbing issues, I'm faced with replacing windows that might as well be open considering the wind blowing in, and just today learned I need a whole new roof. The plumber my home warranty sent me was a total crook (the BBB listed with an F rating). He showed up over 5 hrs late for the 1st appointment smelling a bit of alcohol and looking hungover, he was with a shady looking "assistant" and they kept insisting that to assess the problem they had to see my house and the possible areas that the water heater could leak (mind you, it's way out in the garage and the heater had just gone kaput and stopped working-there was no leak-I refused to let them in), they said they couldn't report to my home warranty or tell me their assessment unless I paid them 60 bucks and let them see the other side of the garage (aka my living room), stuck with no option-i'm a single and short gal living alone and at that point just wanted them out of my house-i gave it to them. He never submitted report to home warranty. After I had to set them on him, he only said a part was missing. (The two plumber quotes I ended up getting on my own both reported multiple other issues b/c it was 15 years old and simply reached its lifespan) The warranty people tried to reschedule the crook plumber for follow up on report. For two different days, after repeated calls, he kept swearing by phone he'd show up (in 15 minutes) but never did. After having bad experiences with other contractors, he took the cake. I was never actually scared of the others coming back to get me in my house. I couldn't stand the thought of some other new homeowner going through the stress (and missed pay from work) that he caused me. I finally submitted my first and only web reviews and they were flat out NEGATIVE!!! I put on every yahoo, google, etc site I could find. And heck yes, I did it anonymously b/c I didn't need these ex-con looking plumbers to come back to my house to get me! The only reason I had the guts to do is that almost every site I went to had other negative reviews with the exact same story (so he couldn't exactly narrow to me-I was sure to be ambiguous enough about details to not identify me). I did want to warn people and I own my cowardness! Put 'em up, put 'em up scarecrow!
Speaking for myself, if this discussion proves anything to me, it's that like it or not, the most any of us could do is research when possible, learn what to ask, and you just have to plunge in and make a decision on hiring someone. I've become very disillusioned on counting on the web to help me through the stress of my money pit but thank goodness, I've also run across some decent contractors along the way.
With a 13 degree windchill out tonight and holes in my roof, I'll simply sign of this message as...
"Disillusioned in Dallas"
aka "Anonymous"
Angie's List has been great for our small company
We are a small service based company that has grown leaps and bounds in the past 5 years and we believe that The List has been a big part of this growth. We aim to please our customers and it shows in our 100% positive rating on the list. We have never paid to be on the list, we have never paid for customer memberships to buy ourselves positive ratings on the list. Our overall experience with Angie's List and their members has been nothing but a positive experience for our company.
Sorry to say this Knaddison,
Sorry to say this Knaddison, first of all when you say some one sucks, you should look at you. With out having proper knowledge of a particular business simply saying that business model sucks is meaningless. It proves that "Knaddison Sucks". Let me answer your points, then you can understand why I say this.
You Said
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Why This Angies List Policy is Dumb
Let's say that I'm a consumer. If Angie's list charges me $5/month I have to get a lot of value out of the list for it to be worth that membership fee. They have millions of customers though, so apparently it's compelling to some folks. Let's say that I'm the business owner, though. If I can create a fake email account and use my home address (or my neighbors address) so that Angie's List doesn't know who I am, then $5/month is a pittance for being able to enter a review of my own business.
So, their whole "we charge a small fee to keep the reviews honest" thing doesn't work for the stated policy, but it sure does help them bring in revenue without worrying about advertising.
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In this latest technology world where you can track everthing its not possible to deceive all the times. As you said if a business person pays $5 and can write a review about him. If he dont provide proper service to the customer, definetly customers will call and complain to Angies List. In this case even though he pays $5, it wont be of any use, because he already got the negative comments from the consumers. Ofcourse if he provides a best service, consumers itself will rate him good. So you can sustain in any business only when you provide good service. Of course you can get away 1-2 times. This is common with every business. So as you mentioned its not possible to deceive and get good ratings all the times. Just because of this you can say that their privacy policy is dumb.
Not just that, for $5 fee they charge from customers they provide many other services. Example if a home owner used one of the plumber service, he didnt fix the issue as well he charged them more. They take of getting this issue fixed as well the extra charge refund. Do you think for $5 a month is it not worth??
So better you understand their business before commenting on them. I am a happy customer with them from 2 years.
You Next Point
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Paid Position/Advertising on Angie's List?
Here's the worst part - after your company gets added they contact you and say something like "your company has been added and reviewed. If you'd like you have an enhanced listing you can pay us for that."
So the whole "we are acting in our members best interests" thing is bullshit! They have one interest in mind: their own.
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Again this is a dumb statement. Every one starts a business to make money. See your site itself. Why at the beginning of the page instaed of providing content, you have placed google ads and other ads. This page is full of Ads. Similarly every one does this for the sake of money. Not just you take for example Google, they say we provide quality and better results than any one. But if you pay on the top you can be on the Top of the search reuslts pages even though you sucks. Thast how the system works. Because of this you can not say google sucks. Only thing is you need to know how to use a proper business model and get the most out of it. If you can not use then that is your problem.
You last statement
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The Review Problem is Real
The thing is - it's really hard to run a review site. Really hard. Getting valuable metrics is difficult. How does each user know if they should be trusting the other users of the site. Angie's List's paid membership program clearly doesn't make sense (though it may work than other current options). So, what's the future? Fortunately, it's the online corollary to the system you already use in real life: you ask your friends and colleagues via social bookmarking that helps guide you to the best local plumber. This is the clear way to solve the problem in the future.
Sorry, Angie's List. You could implement these features in your site, but don't pretend that the $5 is for anything other than your own pockets.
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Atlast you realized that providing 100% real reviews is not at all possible. No one can provide 100% real reviews. You need to depend on people who really used services of that particular company. Also as you mentioned "you ask your friends and colleagues via social bookmarking that helps guide you to the best local plumber." Actually this a very good option. I 100% agree with you. But there are pitfalls with this as well. How much time its going to take to do all this work. Also you will get teh reviews of the services those people have used. You can not see the reviews of the other companies. Also if no one has used those services what you will do??? Every one dont have this much time and energy. So instead of all these hassels i will better $5 and get the reviews of the local companies.
Hope this explains all your points.
I'm not actually going to
I'm not actually going to respond to this aside from saying that
1) your grammar is atrocious - in your first sentence "Sorry to say this Knaddison, first of all when you say some one sucks, you should look at you." I count at least 3 errors including the fact that it's not actually a sentence.
2) your logic is empty because you don't back up your claims - "In this latest technology world where you can track everthing its not possible to deceive all the times." That may be true, but on Angie's list it is possible to deceive. That's all that matters for this discussion.
3) You didn't even bother to read the other responses on this page which point out the flaws in your logic - I don't have a problem with them making money, I have a problem with them lying about their motivations and the ways in which they make money.
4) You attack me personally as "dumb" but are too scared to post your own name publicly.
Three cheers to you, Anonymous man!
I am actually going to respond to this.
"Greggles",
I second your sentiments: atrocious grammar is a sign of ignorance. Atrocious grammar and empty logic are a sign of ignorance AND stupidity. Atrocious grammar, empty logic and not reading the whole post are a sign of Attention Deficit Disorder. Atrocious grammar, empty logic, not reading the whole post AND calling someone "dumb" are a sign of ignorance, stupidity, empty logic and ARROGANCE, and yes -- I place the word in capital letters.
Going back to the argument: there is nothing "wrong" with Angies' list except for the fact that they are a total rip-off for businesses and consumers alike. Having a good experience with contractors one finds through such a list may just be a matter of pure luck. Correlation is not always causation. Thus the illusion you got what you paid Angie's for may be just that: an illusion. My older uncle hired 2 people from this list. They were new and inexperienced, charged too much, and left town a month later. He did not write a negative review as he knew these young guys may have retaliated against him in other ways. Later, they were listed on Angie's with a glowing 5 stars.
Most business provide fair services even when they are not listed. As a matter of fact, most businesses with experience, reputation, and word-of-mouth referrals can care less about joining them and pay hefty fees. Contractors who join lists of this nature may have not have been in business a long time. Theyusually have to charge higher prices to cover their cost. The cost "trickles down" to the consumer.
Angie's is here to stay, but so are politicians, thiefs, and unscrupolous folks be they contractors or consumers.
Praise for Angie's List!
As a person who recently moved to Chicago I have found Angie's List a fantastic resource. Without a strong base of friends here who can give recommendations for companies, I consistenly turn to Angie's List for advice. I think that the website is easy to navigate and the service is well worth the nominal fee. As a fellow non-profit worker, I also support their business ethics. I have nothing but positive feedback for Angie's List.
fellow non profit
Are you saying "fellow non-profit worker" as in "fellow" to my wife who works for non profits?
As far as I know Angie's List is not a "non profit".
Other than that, yeah, www.angielist.com fulfills a role that needs to be filled, but their model is flawed and I predict that in the long run it will either have to change drastically OR will go down as a spammy-gossipy-den of lies.
Angie's List is Certainly a for profit company
$2400+ per month, per category cost to advertise on Angie's List in the 3 Columbus markets, internet and call center coupon (a way to make sure the call center gives your company name out frequently) Angie's List is definitely for profit!! Started advertising in 2003 and rates have more than quadrupled. Then monthly they charge $220 to be printed on the Honor Roll and the $2400 per month only covers one category and as I mentioned before we are rated on five seperate categories on the list so......... PROFIT - I THINK SO!!!!!!!!!! They try to sell contractors a million and one different services and charges are exorbitant!!!!!!!
Doing business with Angie's List still feels like dancing with the devil...........
Fed Up & Angry!
I was one of the many high ranking companies on Angie's List for over a year till yesterday. Then I received an email from Angie's List telling me that they were suspending my company from their list. Reasons they claim are a competior (falsely) claimed a photo submitted by a customer was their photo. Get this they say two customers that used me had both rated a health club so they thought this was fishy and fraud was invloved. They also said sisters (or relvatives) had both used me and both submitted ratings which is unusual. They even revoked my personal account even though they just charged my CC two days ago for the month. This is about the absolutely most outrageous think I've heard in a very long time. It's obvious their system leaves alot (emphasis added) to be desired. WOW!
Yes, the problem with this
Yes, the problem with this company is that it does not disclose its advertising business to consumers who buy a subscription, leaving them with the impression that Angie's List is only out for their consumer members. I doubt anyone paying their subscription fee would view that as anything other than a ripoff if not a complete fraud. Angie's List looks more and more like a scam the more I learn about them.
Not surprisingly, many of the high rated companies on Angie's List are those that from my own experience, I would avoid like the plague.
car repairs
I went to Angie's List looking for an honest and reputable mechanic-guess? All the dishonest and "slimy" mechanics that I had gone to - names were on the "good list" So much for that list-----
AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE
About Angie's: what you see is not what you get. They don't know the contractors personally nor is the "screening" process accurate. They are so big they cannot screen everything that comes in, positive or negative as it may be. They don't help with complaints made by the customers or by the business. They DO CHARGE BUSINESSES to be listed and to be placed on the top of their list. They try to milk the cow from both ends. Contractors and homeowners are just too small to fight what's become a multi-million dollar business. DON'T JOIN. You will be helping an dishonest company grow and rip-off more people.
Highly Rated Companies
Most of the highly rated companies are just that - excellent companies. My point is that contractors can and do pay exceedingly high advertising rates and in return Angie's List does give there name out much more frequently than companies that refuse to pay their outrageous rates.
I stopped advertising other than call center coupon and my calls dropped dramatically. Just an FYI.............
wrong
angie's list doesn't give out names like servicemaster seems to. I can see the whole list and sort and rank by a variety of details. I read a variety of reports - all if the available reports are few, and sort them by different factors if the list is too long to read. I don't think you've ever seen the list given your comments.
What's all the fuss about?
The commenter is free to issue his opinion. It is very small-minded to criticize him for his opinion, be it right or wrong. Angie's list is a service for those who wish to use it and who find it to be of service. Nobody is forced to use it. There is nothing else to say.
ok
You didn't comment inline with whichever "commenter" you are defending, so I'm not sure what you're talking about exactly. However, you seem to like Angie's list so I'm going to assume that you are defending one of the people who disagreed with my original post. Since all of the people who have disagreed with me have been insulting to me, just how reasonable is it for you to say that I'm being small minded when I criticize them?
Further, you claim that it is just for those who wish to use it and that nobody is forced to use it so there is nothing else to say. Your point seems to be that I shouldn't state something negative about them if I dislike what they are doing. How do you reconcile that with your actions: coming to my site--uninvited and without being forced--and then telling me what to write on my own site?
What All the Fuss About
You must be kidding! What's all the fuss about? Briefly: yes, consumers are free to use or not to use Angie's list. Angie's list, however, should not be free to misrepresent their services and lure gullible people or contractors to join. The problem is with Angie's mirsrepresenting its services. Last I heard fraud is immoral, ripping people off is not nice -- even when people believe they are getting something. You are correct, though, is some people are happy, so what? I don't have a beef with happy people, I have a beef with misleading advertising.
wrong
i have heard nothing but great things about angie's list so i'm not sure where all this fuss is coming from.
good point - I'm not sure either!
Frankly, I wrote what I thought was going to be a throw away post. My friend asked what I thought about them and I looked into it and wrote about it. The fact that so many people on this page have been motivated to write in their additional points about why they dislike www.angieslist.com just goes to show, in my opinion, that there are plenty of reasons to get "fussy" about them.
seems like another way to make money, gee wish I thought of that
I'm sitting here with an insurance check that is too small to cover hail damage, or so the companies I have contacted for estimates have advised. I have never looked at or considered Angie's list, but as the thunderstorm season rolls into full swing, I thought I'd check A.L. out. I discovered only too soon that you had to pay to get any information. I must have been asleep for the past few years as all the recommendations from friends and family to call A.L. never mentioned a fee. Maybe this doesn't bother me as much as the fine print, something about my email address, or sending me information about other topics etc. I don't have to pay for google, dogpile, live maps, map quest, sudoku, text twist, hotmail, etc. Why should I pay for this, and especially if A.L wants me to agree to let you clog my mailbox with unwanted solicitation, oh wait, I had to agree to this to join, so I guess it's not unwanted and you do allow me to unsubscribe. Fee or not, I see your point on how this could be manipulated adversly to the consumer all in the name of profit. As a further gripe, it's bad enough to have an insurance company lowball an estimate, it's even worse to know that you can't completely trust an organization that proclaims to be trustworthy. In this case, word of mouth, or BBB will have to suffice. Just my take on things. Thanks for the chance to vent.
Wrong
You have read only good things about Angies? Have you read this site? Have you called the BBB? Have you researched this company? Obviously not. Obviously you must not read much or know how to do research. Thank you, though, for letting us know.
Who/what is perfect?!
I've read all the comments here and I will disclaim that I am a business using angie's list and do pay monthly for both, being highlighted in rotation with several other providers in my category at the top of the list, and also for print advertisement in the monthly publication.
Several points to make....
1)I have never been told by AL staff that they would pay me for each new customer I referred, however I do at all times willingly tell people about the service b/c it far out does the blind crap shoot of the yellowpages.
2)I have 100 reports filed by my clients in just over 1 year on the list and I am only one small, new company, so they can have the # of reviews & customers they claim easily.
3)I could fictiously post "great" reviews about my company, but why? Potential customers could easily sense it, the BS being laid on and it's not worth the effort.
4)Craig'sList, the epitomy of open source marketing-free posting, etc., does in fact charge for some aspects in some markets (job posting in NYC). Nothing in this world is free and making some money is not inherently wrong.
5)AL listing/advertising is very reasonably priced for its customer base. In my city (1 million people), there are two "yellow pages" and they each charge $500 per month for a 1/4 page ad!!! That is $12,000 a year for something I immediately put into the recycle bin and find annoying & useless in their clutter "yellow pages on the web" listing at the top of my web searches.
6)The service must work based on isolating bad contractors from good. If it didn't, then you would see companies with "A" ratings loaded with bad reviews and this doesn't happen. It is a positive feedback loop. A company does good, they get good reviews, they get more customers, etc. They do bad, they get bad reviews, they lose potential customers, they fail or they advertise in the yellowpages where no one knows about their shoddy business practices or poor quality work.
7)I won the Super Service Award this year for my category and it was but one more incentive for doing excellent work. I had roughly double the amount of postings of any other company. Two things bothered me though. I needed to join the BBB, which is a crock in that their "business model" only keeps negative reports on a company for potential customer review and they are no more knowledgeable about trade qualifications than a 3 yr old. And, that I thought I would be the only one receiving the SSA for my category, but there were 5 others as well, several with 1/10 the number of comments! I guess if only 5% receive the award and there are over 100 companies in my category the math plays out:(
8)Both servicemagic.com & topservicepros.com have sought my usage & advertising dollars, but I think they are jokes and wouldn't be bothered with them.
9)As far as limited coverage concerns, let's face it...it takes time for a company to grow. They are in more markets than they were when I started and just like I wanted to grow my business slowly and responsibly (to maintain high customer satisfaction) so too Angie's must grow at a reasonable rate to ensure its clients the same.
10)There are few if any resources out there to monitor contractors and their "de facto" qualifications and Angie's does try to ensure companies have some level of competence through customer reviews. State licensing boards do little more than ensure a company pays its taxes and fees as in my field they couldn't tell the difference between a hammer & a chainsaw. As a consumer, I would rather have the backing of other consumers like myself than a state agency that doesn't test on job specific knowledge or qualifications!
Lastly, because I am an honest business and do offer high quality work to my clients (see positive feedback loop) I know for a fact I have received jobs from customers that did not get other bids on the job and went solely off what they read about my company on Angie's List. I did not know this before submitting my bids so I had no incentive to jack my prices up, but customers used Angie's to make an informed, educated decision to use my company. This is much better than the sole-source bidding done by Halliburton/KBR etc., so maybe the government needs an Angie's List for some fiscal responsibility!
Please no need for commenting on my grammar/punctuation. The world isn't perfect, nor are any companies, nor any one person.
Have a good day!
p.s. when talking with my Angie's List representative recently, I actually asked her where I could post a review on Angie's List and I felt it only fair and wanted to post good comments.
thank you!
borealtree - thank you so much for a well thought out and valuable post. When I made registration required I hoped that it would reduce the number of pointless anonymous posts, but I didn't expect that it would raise the quality of new comments to the level you've taken it.
I think you've raised lots of good points and agree with most of them. I agree that Angie's List is generally a good service - my concern is about the scalability of the model and the opportunities to tamper with their data. I stand by my claim that in the long run they will need to change their model to survive.
Again - thanks for a well reasoned, logical, and polite post.
Dear Borealtree - ***Caution***Beware ***Caution*** Beware***
borealtree- Beware of putting all of your eggs in one basket. I too had a honeymoon with Angie's List for about three years. The Super Service Awards, Honor Ads, A+ ratings in 5 categories, etc. You know the drill. What you don't know is that the first time you don't cave to a customers unreasonable demands and draw a line in the sand and say "No" your phone will stop ringing. Your name and number will no longer be given out until the issue is resolved to the customers satisfaction. My company actually ended up doing over $10,000 worth of free work for one customer after a two month standoff when I refused to cave- Finally did the work because I needed the referrals. And know this. Whether Angie's List existed or not my company would still do quality work at affordable pricing performed by employees that take pride and ownership in their work. We have always gone above and beyond for our customers but never put ourselves in a position to be blackmailed before.. Ended up on the list because a customer we did work for was on the list and it grew from there. Angie's List didn't even factor into my business plan in the beginning and in hindsight I wish I would of kept it that way!
Anyhow, what I liked about Angie's List was the quality of the clientel and the quanity of referrals just for doing what we have always done and will always do.
I will never again though, allow my company to depend on referrals from one source. The source can dry up. I have met with Angie. I have talked on the phone with CEO. I have had a good relationship with my marketing rep and I monitored my account and comments weekly.
Anyhow, just wanted to give you a heads up. Don't give Angie's List the power to hurt your business. You may think it will never happen to you, but you will come across that one con artist, unreasonable customer and either kowtow to what they want or lose your referrals until you do.
Now, if you ask anyone at Angie's List they will tell you this isn't what happens, but trust me, it does. I experienced it twice and the second time I rolled over much quicker..... I immediately began downsizing with Angie's List and spent my advertising dollars elsewhere. I actually now spend less on advertising, get alot of my customers as repeat customers or word of mouth and still get Angie's List customers without giving them any of my advertising dollars. My call center ad expires next month and if I don"t receive any Angie's List referrals I am at the point where I will have plenty of work without them. Strongly suggest you do the same.....
Angie's List wants your money but they will always stand up for the consumer- whether the consumer is in the right or the wrong. You are expendable.... Make sure Angie's List is too!! You asked - who is perfect - well you better be perfect and then some if you are depending on Angie's List for your customers!!
Learned the hard way -- Doing business with Angie's List is like dancing with the devil....
AngiesList DOES sorta suck
Greg is pretty much right on this. Yes, there are many good companies on AngiesList--the customer isn't always wrong. But anyone who has ever run a business knows that the customer isn't always right, either. Sometimes they are dishonest, cheap, unreasonable SOBs who simply want something for nothing.
The AngiesList system can be, and Is gamed every day. Bad companies write glowing reviews of themselves. The argument that consumers will write negative reviews that will balance that effect is true, but only to a point. The company can still overwhelm the bad reviews with fake good reviews.
AngiesList also allows companies to post batches of "good" reviews 10 at a time, all posted on the same day, by different users, all of whom apparently simultanously got it into into their heads to post a glowing review--never a bad review--on what is still a little-known site, all on the same day. Give me a break! An "anonymous" poster/AL flack categorically denies this above, but I can show you AngiesList sites where this is going on right now. (Hint--we have done this for several of our clients)
Incredibly, AngiesList gives very positive ratings to companies which have a majority of "bad" reviews. I think this is the worst strike against them. They either don't read the overwhelmingly negative reviews about a company before they top rate them, and/or they just don't care. They just want the businesses' money.
The "little Angie Hicks going door to door and asking her neighboours in Mayberry" schtick is just total BS, and it's pathetic that so many gullible people want to believe it. "Angie" is just a figurehead for a company which has huge venture capital behind it, and which wants to make a lot of money. There is nothing wrong with wanting to make money --but there is definitely something wrong with the way AngiesList wraps itself up in a cloak of neighborly good feeling, while hiding the fact that it is a ruthless, for-profit venture in which "bad" companies can pay to be listed higher than "good" companies who don't need or cannot afford to pay.
The fact is the only time that AngiesList cares about consumers is when their "complaints" can be used to shake down businesses, in exactly the same way that the Better Business Bureau does. (Many people--probably the same naive souls who believe that "Angie" is Mother Teresa-- think that the BBB is a division of the U.S. Government, or the Small Business Administration. It's simply a version of AngiesList that's been around for 90 years, is franchised to entrepreneurs in every US city, and which charges businesses $300-$500/year for a five cent sticker saying that they are a proud member of the "Better" Business Bureau!)
No, AngiesList doesn't suck --completely--but it is fundamentally dishonest and deceptive, and of questionable accuracy, despite their well-oiled PR machine and the obvious corporate flacks defending them here. All they want is money--from the consumer paying $60.00/year, to the businesses paying them thousands of dollars a year in advertising. Wake up, people! When you see (very expensive) Newspaper, radio, and Google ads for Angies "free consumer service", who do you think is paying for them? YOU are!
But AngiesList is doomed anyway. All these supposedly independent "reviews" are now free on AOL, citysearch, etc. All AngiesList will have achieved is to further erode whatever trust people and communities once had in the Internet.
Just a few facts I do not think ya'll are aware of
I have been a member since they barely had 1,500 members in my area (now 20,000), and this is what I have learned:
1- Sure, a company could post a review about themselves, but when Angie's List finds out- they are immediately removed.
2- The reason why a company with a bunch of bad reviews can have a good "grade" is because theirgrading system is just like a school's. They even show GPA's. And jut like in School- if you had 2 F's and he rest of your grade were A's... Your GPA wouln't be that bad.
3- Angie Hicks IS a real person who DID go door-to-door. Go to Indianapolis and ask one of their employes to meet her in person. The company DID start with just a two people as employees, and their total # of membes DOUBLED fro 245,000 to 500,000+ since 2005.
4- If some stupid member goes online and posts bad comments about a company- the company does have the chance to go online and respond to these comments. So users CAN get both sides of the story.
5-When you're reading reviews, you can click on a link to view that same user's other comments about all companies they've ever reviewed, and see for yourself if they're being fair or if they're just a "hard grader".
6- In order for a company to advertise on AL, be high-lighted and offer discounts, they must have at least one report that was posted within the last 2 yrs, and have total grades of a B or more average. A company with all c's and f's cannot advertise even if they pay.
7- Members can pick what reports to look at- the ones with just A and B ratings or all of them.
8- Sure, you can post and read reviews for free on AOL and those other websites--- but if companies post reviews about themselves on AL when they have to pay---why wouldn't they do it on all the other websites also?
Personally, I'd rather hear other's experiences before bringing some felon into my house to fix my furnace. That's the reason people even go on Angie's List.
The facts you don't want to know about AngiesList
From the immediate reply to my posting above--the flacks are obviously monitoring this and any other sites that question AngiesList business practices. However, "Bahebcindy" does not address my main points and/or tiptoes around them.
I never said that Angie Hicks isn't a real person. Litle Angie Hicks may have started it, just like hundreds of people start "referral" businesses every day. But she had neither the money or the ability to take it nationwide.
Bahebcindy writes: "Sure, a company could post a review about themselves, but when Angie's List finds out- they are immediately removed."
A. How does Angies List "find out"? We have posted at least 50 reviews for three businesses in Cincinnatti and Chicago and San Jose, all of which are still up and available. I know other companies which have also done so. They have never been removed either. Posting "reviews" is now just a part of online marketing, along with posting reviews on Yelp, InsiderPages, CitySearch, etc.
And as I pointed out, AngiesList does not even catch multiple posts about a company on the same day. (Bahebcindy didnt address that). We're not dumb enough to do that, but I can point to companies which have, and didn't get caught. Ten reviews all posted on the same date. Then ten more a month later? How basic is it to monitor abuse like that? Who is watching the watchdog?
2- "The reason why a company with a bunch of bad reviews can have a good "grade" is because theirgrading system is just like a school's. They even show GPA's. And jut like in School- if you had 2 F's and he rest of your grade were A's... Your GPA wouln't be that abd"
Answer:Check out the advertisers in Chicago. Look at every one of the companies with Angies List coupons, read every review, and tell me that all those companies deserve AL's "A" rating. Some of these "A" rated companies have nothing but complaints, or D, E, or F grades. Is AL is changing the overall grade? Clearly they are not reading the reviews.
"If some stupid member goes online and posts bad comments about a company- the company does have the chance to go online and respond to these comments."
Answer: So now you're saying that members of the public who post bad comments about a company are "stupid". I thought you wanted to hear the bad comments before you "hired some felon to fix the furnace in my house."
"In order for a company to advertise on AL, be high-lighted and offer discounts, they must have at least one report that was posted within the last 2 yrs, and have total grades of a B or more average."
Wow, that's setting the bar really high. Any half-witted "felon" can pass that test. (Note to half-witted felons: I can help you!) The three companies for whom we have posted numerous fake reviews in the past six months in Chicago, Cincinnati, and San Jose have never been "caught" or removed.
While it's true that these businesses do get the occasional call from someone who says they saw them on AngiesList, they get more calls from AngiesList advertising salespeople.
Finally, Ms. Flack simply ignores the main point, which is that AngiesList will soon be history. What was probably a little business that was genuinely trying to be of some use has been corrupted by the need to quickly pay back the costs of trying to expand to every city in the U.S. And the more "visible" AngiesList becomes/became, the more it will be gamed by business owners and marketing people. Pretty soon, it will have lost all credibility.
In the major metros where AngiesList has been giving it away for free, nobody is now going to start paying for AL. (Note to people in midwest-why are you paying for something that is free everywhere else?) That means that they will have to really ramp up the advertising sales calls to small businesses, all of whom are bombarded daily with similar sales pitches from other "review" sites, as well as Service Magic, Yellow Pages, newspapers, radio and TV, and every other marketing person with a bridge to sell you.
Money talks, BS walks.
Here's the kind of stuff
Here's the kind of stuff Angie's List sends to service providers daily:
Try New Mover's Mailbox from Angie's List and market your business to new homeowners — it's inexpensive, targeted, and will generate new customers for you...
www.newmoversmailbox.com
Plus, New Mover's Mailbox will help you design and print a marketing piece
to mail to new homeowners in you area.
New homeowners spend an average of $9,700 on their new home
within the first 180 days.
New movers are 5 times more likely to become long-term customers
if you reach them first!
Signing up is simple! Here's how it works...
Choose the zip codes that you want to target for your business.
Every month you will receive your New Mover's Mailbox list. This list will include the addresses of all new homeowners/new movers that have moved into the zip codes you selected.
Send your own marketing piece or let us design and print one for you.
For more information log on to www.newmoversmailbox.com
or contact Kathy Vanderhorst at 1-866-783-2977 (ext. 8810) or kathyv@angieslist.com
AngiesList.com | Contact Us
which is it???
you really need to get your story straight. Before you said you did it in Philly, chicago, and the other town.
I really think you need to own up, and tell people where you actually got away with this, and with what company, or whatever, because I called my friend again who works there, and she checked a couple of the towns, and there are 1-3 "suspects" that they already are watching. However, she says that one HAS GOTTEN THEIR FIRST WARNING ALREADY, and she says the other suspects are there, but they are getting any business like you claim. She says UNLESS YOU ARE ACTUALLY PAYING TO ADVERTISE now, you are NOT up high in the list, unless you are in a category that no one uses. She says in top cities like chicago, etc...there are advertisers in most of the good categories that get constant business, and you would be listed at least 12th or below, and if you are NOT advertising in those cities you aren't getting the business you say you are, and that the reports expire after 3 years, and so even if you are spending all that money to keep renewing your yearly memberships in those cities, just so you can fall at the bottom of page one, or on page two of the category, you're lying about how easy it is, and you're probably lying about getting caught, etc.
the general concensus is that you are making up a lot of it, to make it look like it was easy. Already with just the info you've provided about buying memberships in several cities, and making reports on other companies too -has you doing a full-time job just to keep reports up there, and keep doing it, and keep from getting caught, and the fact that you would have to involve several others in the project. THIS 100% MAKES IT not very feasible for the average contractor.
If you have gotten away with it for real -it's time to own up. What company, what city -so that we can verify that you are telling the truth 100% -because we are getting a more clear picture so far that IF you did everything you said, NO ONE ELSE would go to that trouble, and we don't think you are being honest about a lot of it.
You are cheating on Angie's List -so OF COURSE you wouldn't be telling anyone else the TRUTH EITHER. If you cheat in one area -you're cheating in a lot more areas...my guess is you probably cheat on your spouse as well...
Dishonesty and people that think this way, don't change their spots the rest of the time.
Angie's Clients are not always welcome.
My company doesn't like to take clients who are members of Angie's list and who depend on this list exclusively. We have been in business for many years and have learned that, as clients have the right to screen us, we have the right to screen them. We attended a seminar on the "ideal client". An "ideal client" is a well-informed client who choses a contractor according to solid and tested criteria, checks references, goes to the BBB web site, asks friends, and so on, you know the drill.
In my opinion, many clients - although obviously not all - who join Angie's list or other worthless and dubious lists can be paranoid and not not very bright or trusting. They vacillate between trust and mistrust. Not having followed a reliable process, they will try to hire a company, but have ambiguous feelings about it. Angie's seems reassuring to them, but deep inside they usually know that perhaps they are placing their trust in the wrong place. This translates in an awkward business relationship. We don't like awkward business relationships. Again, we ask clients to check our own references. We have many.
We prefer clients who are not gullible, who can at least minimally trust us, who have gotten several bids, checked LOCAL references and are sure that when they hire us they do so because we have established a good rapport. The minute a client tells us they have joined Angie's they are at the bottom of our list. This seams mean or unfair. To us, it is good business practice.
A content business Owner who will NEVER join Angie's.
Communicate and build trust.
I thank you for this. We are an honest remodeling company, and we greatly prefer customers who are responsible enough to use their own judgment and a screening process based on communication. We spend time via phone, email and in person providing information and bids to potential customers. We really care to do a good job from the start and building mutual trust is vital as a starting point. If we can't build trust, if we just can't sense that the customer notices we are decent people with integrity who are trying to provide a helpful service to them and make a living in doing so, and that is ALL we are trying to do, we don't take the job.
We do not see how reading anonymous Internet reports by the tiny minority, positive or negative, can ever be a foundation of trust. It is a crapshoot, no matter if it works for you or not. It can never replace actual, live communication with a person so as to decide if that person is trustworthy. If a customer can't make a call and discuss his/her project for 10 minutes, is too scared of what might happen by doing so, doesn't trust himself or herself enough to evaluate based on human interaction, then I guess the Internet crapshoot would be valuable to that person.
As far as I can tell, the best people, and thus the best contractors, the honest, skilled guys who focus on service and great results, simply do not bother with the fake world of Internet reviews and the sites that profit from them.
Communicate and build trust comment
Susan, thanks for what you wrote. I have an earlier post on this discussion board about cowardly anonymous reviews. One of the things I mentioned is that as a first time homeowner, I've learned that it is a crap shoot, there comes a point where I just have to plunge in and make a decision on hiring a home repair or improvement vendor. I have been that "single woman that a mechanic can't wait to take advantage of!" Forget the mechanics, the crooks lurking in home improvement are 100 times worse. I absolutely agree with your comment. Reading reviews on the web hasn't helped me avoid the con men out there! The best thing I've done is learn to find my voice when talking with a contractor or vendor and do as much homework as possible. Reading books, referring to websites like DIY, HGTV, EHow, licensing board sites, professional association sites, industry standard sites, etc. have proved far more helpful to arm me with a set of questions to ask a repair person. The good service folks out there are the ones who are happy to answer all my questions patiently.
My advice to homeowners is a spin off of your points: yes, I still believe a vendor should provide good customer service and be able to instill trust in a client. But for me personally, it's a two-way street. A web review is a poor substitute if I, as the consumer, can't actually articulate or define what exactly I'd need to see in that vendor to build my trust. A web review can never measure up to my own research of what a good delivery of service entails. I'll never meet Angie, but I will meet my potential contractors. I can ask her what she thinks, or I can ask them my checklist of questions. I'd rather make a judgment based on the criteria I define--not some stranger!
I like the points you made, but......
You stated: " I was new in the business" and relate that throu Angie's list you got a bunch of business. Kudos to you and congratulation for being honest and prosperous. Now, what IF you were not really that good? And that's the problem wi this (or any) list: many new inexperienced companies join or are listed. Even if eventually they are booted out from one list, they join another list, and another...... Now, who really pays in the first place? The consumer who hired the new kid on the block not knowing that this "screened" contractor was really new.
WITH ANGIE'S LIST YOU TAKE A CHANCE NO MATTER WHAT. DO YOUR DUE-DILIGENCE. While a list may be a starting point, a lot of homework needs to be done in checking LOCAL references and making sure you are being ripped off. Angie CANNOT guarantee that. Why pay if, after all, you still have to do all the work?
angies list... I dont like it really
I am a very respected business owner in my field, I've had many customer who have refered me to Angies List and have never joined for the following reasons:
1. The first time I heard about the list and called and requested information about "advertising", they had me waiting on the phone for about 10 minutes, they were rude and told me very cold tone "we don't do conventional paid advertisment" Yeah! I waited all that long to heat that!!!
2. I've seen jobs featured by awarded contractors in my field and they are not that great as they advertise, who are their "experts" anyways?????
3. They make it looks like every single client-customer is right and that is not always the case, people do very shady stuff to NOT pay what a job is worth, but there is not a page featuring nagging, cheap, complicated, hard to work with stubborn clientele.
4. Many of my clients are members and no company listed in their pages can outstand our work -for what they have said- .
5. Reputation can be certainly trashed in this list and Im not willing to jeopardize something I've worked really hard for, not afraid, but I don't need them either.
100% agree with main article.
We need to open our own
We need to open our own web-site: naggy, cheap, crazy clients.com
Seriouysly: a client can blackmail you by blacklisting you on Angie's. Heck, why not tell all the crazy folks that expect something for nothing, or who get uyp on the wrong side of the bed and take it out on you, that you can too list how neurotic they are, so that nobody will ever work for them?
I am tempted to do this. As a matter of fact: when I retire in a few years and I don't have to worry about running a business, I will open my own list of contractors who can sign up and get the names of clients who are just impossible to deal with. I'll hire an analyst to analyze their behavior :-) ....... May be I'll call the site: neurotics dot com. I can't be sued either if all I report is contractors' experiences with obnoxious people. After all if there is freedom of speech for Angie's, there must be for contractprs.
Would someone take me up on this?
A fed-up business Owner. (Fed up with lists, referral fees, advertising fees and BS that has made my life miserable. Not fed up with clients ibn general as I have learned to avoid neurotic clients...they are not worth my time and sleep!)
Bad Customer List
I have wanted to create a bad customer list for years. Small business owners have to have some way to check out customers to protect themselves. Our company was blindsided by an untruthful review for work that was completed more than 2 years ago. We have no recourse other than to post a response, but it was so long ago that we can't even remember who these people are. They have removed the time limit on when the work was completed. Angie's List won't ever remove a customer review. The customer has to do it. Everything is biased against the small business. Excuse me but we are people too. The vast majority of our customers are great. It only takes a couple to be nasty and tarnish a good reputation. It hurts all of the people employed by that business, not just the owner. They probably never even considered that or maybe they just don't care.
Contract changes mid term
Can you believe that Angie's list changes their contract before your subscription expires and refuses to allow you to use the service without agreeing to the new terms and conditions? Is this legal or just a breech of normal ethical business practices?
Legal issues
No, it is not legal, yet Angie's has (probably) more money and better attorneys than you do. So do drug dealers, politicians, and city hall. That's why they always win. But, occasionally they get caught too. I hope I will live long enough to see the day that Angie's gets sued and looses, but I am not holding my breath.
Cancellation policy
I was a member of Angie's list for awhile. We were having problems with our A/C, and there seem to be a lot of A/C contractors out there who don't know what they're doing, so the list was helpful in that regard.
However... I do think that it's overpriced for what you get. We hadn't used it since the A/C incident, and I decided I was tired of paying that monthly fee. I went to the site to cancel, only to find out that there was no link for cancellation. No way to easily opt out - they would keep dinging my credit card forever. It said you had to cancel by contacting them, by e-mail, mail, or phone. I e-mailed them, but heard nothing in return. I had to call, get disconnected, call again, get put on hold, and answer a lengthy survey before I could get conclusively cancelled. That whole procedure REALLY turned me off and made me angry.
Angie's List Super Service Award Is A Scam In My Opinion
Consumer BEWARE !
Some Con Men are advertising they "Won" the Angie's List Super Service Award.
This may LOOK impressive, but we need to look a little deeper.
All the Con Men need do is have several friends, or even made up identities join Angie's List.
These friends "rate" the Con Mans company highly.
To have 4 friends join for a year is inexpensive, even if the Angies List Membership was 100.00 dollars a year times 4 !
For only 400 dollars a year, WHERE can you buy this kind of advertising ??
These friends who joined Angies List can also be used to destroy the reputation of an honest competitor.
All one or two friends of the Con Men have to say is "They did a poor job, or didn't return a call"
Next thing you know, the GOOD company's reputation tumbles in the Angie's List Ratings, while the Con Men get a Super Service Award.
A scam in my humble opinion too.
It is a Scam! How anyoneone fails to see this is beyond belief. It's like the story of the Emperor's New Clothes ........ People believe what they are told to believe. An ounce of wisdmon and some critical thinking would immediately bring to light the fact that most "lists" are nothing but a rip-off. But then, if a consumer thinks the emperor has new clothes, why deprive him/her of their conviction? I certainly will not do so. But I can certainly be amused at their naivete.
I see Angies List advertising as a conflict of interest.
I am a small one man electrical contractor and I have been listed on angie's list since early in 2004. If people want to pay for referrals I say more power to them. Just keep it to volunteer referring.
As has been discussed, to maximize their profits they came up with the idea of charging the contractors advertising fees to place the contractors name at the top of the list when someone did a search with the contractors services offered.
These guys hound me at least monthly to be a paid advertiser on the site. I am not interested, and will not allow my self to sink to that level since I feel it's no less than conflict of interest since it was started as a consumer paid referral service.
I'll report back if Angie's List blackballs me for posting here.
Conflict of Interest
Angie's: lies, conflict of interest, rip-off, thievery. I don't even answer my phone any more unless it's a local call. I own a small business.
I get four to five calls a day from referral services (like Angie's who claims to be consumer-oriented) who want me to pay them hefty fees for unqualified leads. How can someone from Las Vegas, San Franscisco, or Tim-Buck-Two know anything my State, my Town or My Neiborhood? One of these companies even outsources their call center to India! Service Magic, Angies's, Contractors.net, Bidclerks, Reliable Remodelers, Remodelers Advantage and I don't know who else ......... They all want my money. If I were members of all of them or just a few, my prices would skyrocket. Many of the leads are given to multiple contractors and are worthless.
Frustrated contractors don't make good contractors. When Jo the plumber gets taken by the government bec/ of high small business taxes, by the insurance bec/ of higher liability costs, by the health insurance co. bec/ they are too small to get good fees, by fly-by-night competitors who are promoted by these lists, and finally by the lists themselves....well, Jo the Plumber or Jim the Electrician will pass the cost to consumer, or they will go fishing and forget the whole thing!
Go figure why a potential client would trust more a company in another state or located in India to give referrals in my home town? Don't they have friends, read the paper, watch TV, go to Church, have co-workers, have friends, relatives, neighbours, the BBB, who would be most happy to refer them someone for FREE?
As a result of this mess, I only work for SERIOUS clients who know me and trust me. What appears to be a potential client is often someone who surfs the net and finds these lists. With a quick touch of a button, they can access twenty contractors for a free estimate. Not all of them are serious and they waste my time. I prefer clients who have been referred by my own clients. It goes two-ways. I have breakfast with other businesspeople who avoid Angie's clients at all costs. They too are frustrated by these referral systems or lead-generating machines that try to bleed you to death! Nobody wins here, except companies like Angie's who profit. But then why blame Angie's? I just will no longer work from folks referred by this list, and I have enough business to keep alive for a long time!
Conflict of Interest
Angie's: lies, conflict of interest, rip-off, thievery. I don't even answer my phone any more unless it's a local call. I own a small business.
I get four to five calls a day from referral services (like Angie's who claims to be consumer-oriented) who want me to pay them hefty fees for unqualified leads. How can someone from Las Vegas, San Franscisco, or Tim-Buck-Two know anything my State, my Town or My Neiborhood? One of these companies even outsources their call center to India! Service Magic, Angies's, Contractors.net, Bidclerks, Reliable Remodelers, Remodelers Advantage and I don't know who else ......... They all want my money. If I were members of all of them or just a few, my prices would skyrocket. Many of the leads are given to multiple contractors and are worthless.
Frustrated contractors don't make good contractors. When Jo the plumber gets taken by the government bec/ of high small business taxes, by the insurance bec/ of higher liability costs, by the health insurance co. bec/ they are too small to get good fees, by fly-by-night competitors who are promoted by these lists, and finally by the lists themselves....well, Jo the Plumber or Jim the Electrician will pass the cost to consumer, or they will go fishing and forget the whole thing!
Go figure why a potential client would trust more a company in another state or located in India to give referrals in my home town? Don't they have friends, read the paper, watch TV, go to Church, have co-workers, have friends, relatives, neighbours, the BBB, who would be most happy to refer them someone for FREE?
As a result of this mess, I only work for SERIOUS clients who know me and trust me. What appears to be a potential client is often someone who surfs the net and finds these lists. With a quick touch of a button, they can access twenty contractors for a free estimate. Not all of them are serious and they waste my time. I prefer clients who have been referred by my own clients. It goes two-ways. I have breakfast with other businesspeople who avoid Angie's clients at all costs. They too are frustrated by these referral systems or lead-generating machines that try to bleed you to death! Nobody wins here, except companies like Angie's who profit. But then why blame Angie's? I just will no longer work from folks referred by this list, and I have enough business to keep alive for a long time!
Conflict of Interest
I apologize for the double post. I don't know how to remove it.
This is no different than
This is no different than people trusting sites at the top of the search results simply because they made it in the top 10 according Google's algos. The sites on the first page must have credibility right? Well, not always as I am sure you have seen a lot of garbage sites claiming to be an authority.
Consumers Checkbook
I have read enough to have reservations about Angie's List here and elsewhere. I suggest that some of you look at Consumer's Checkbook. At $30 per year, it is cheaper than Angie's list, and it is a non-profit. I would like to see what others have experienced here.
Angie's list and the BBB
I disagree with the person about the BBB (Better Business Bureau) if any company is a scam it’s them. The BBB will post anything even if the company is in the right and hasn't done anything wrong this gives the customer the power, they believe the customer over the company. The BBB says they are neutral that's not true they are out only to make money. If a nonprofit company makes 1,0000.00 a year and don't make a profit where do you think the money goes to the state no in their pocket so they don't show a profit so that makes them nonprofit? Well they have to register with the state big deal. I'm not saying that Angie's list is any better but they are all out to make a buck.
Angies List and there own BBB rating
If your interested in Angies List own business performance/ethics, just take a look at there own BBB file. 20 Complaints with 12 in the last year. I wish I would have known this before I ever decided to advertise with this company. From one business owner to another, you might want to look elswhere for your advertising needs. This company doesn't even come close to living up to the claims it makes. Why else do think they lock you into a 12 month contract??????
Angie
I'm a small HVAC contractor and was approached by Angie's list last year. We were apprehensive about it. I questioned whether the comments and recommendations could be manipulated. They assured me that couldn't happen. But I still wasn't sure about being part of it. They then said I could be on top of their list by advertising. They even suggested that I offer our customers future discounts, coupons or even cash awards to get recommendations for our company. At that point we declined and realized they are simply a company out to make money. Maybe originally Angie had a good idea, but it has been currupted and distorted out of control by profit.
oh, so now angie contacts the
oh, so now angie contacts the contractors?no thanks. i'll stick to old fashioned communication methods when hiring someone.plus, they never let you leave.... sounds like a good idea gone bad.
Amazing!
I am blown away by how much reaction this thread has generated - pro & con! Very interesting...
Angie's List Super Service Award. A Scam In My Opinion
The comment made by a previous poster about Angie's List rings true in my opinion.
Not only can a business artificially inflate their own rankings, but they can TRASH an honest competitors good reputation on Angie's List as well!
ALL these Con Men need do is have a few friends join Angie's List.
Then, these Con Men "hire" their competitor and trash them !!
I saw a Bad rating on Angie's List given to a poor company because they "did not return" a sales inquiry!
To make matters WORSE, unless the poor company was an Angie's List Member, they might never know.
And, to the poster who pointed out Angie's List OWN poor rating with the BBB, thank you.
wrong info
they can't get away with trashing their competitors...who's going to believe that the same customers used the same companies. in the same category...this does not go on -it's all BS.
Yes, of course companies can get graded for not returning a phone call -BUT they are not graded as heavily. Answering your phone, and being considerate enough to return a customers phone call deserves a grade.
Companies absolutely do NOT have to be an Angie's List member in order to find out if they have a bad review. However, lots of companies that have bad grades, are not always contacted after the initial 3 calls. If a contractor won't return a customer call -most likely they are returning Angie's list calls either, so that is actually why they aren't aware, usually until a customer tells them or a relative -then they call Angie's List. Most negatively rated companies won't call Angie's List back.
I seriously doubt the BBB is giving Angie's list a poor rating -better verify that yourself.
Angies TV ads suck
Angies TV ads are addressed to low grade morons. Who selects a plumber because he can walk a dog? What does color of paint have to do with the competence of a paint contractor? ... I have assumed their "list" must be as dumb as their ads.
Thanks Angie
Five dollars got me a false account to pump up my business, another five got me a second account to blast the competition!
Thanks, Angie!
Thanks Angie
WOW, that is very honest of you,( hopefully you can read the sarcasim.) I wish I new your business name so I could tell everyone I know how dishonest you are. I am sure it would drive business....For everyone out there COMPLAINING about angie's list, I get the feeling you dont really know how it works...
Members rate contractors based on their oppinion of what happend and how it happend,
Contractors have to have an A or B rating to advertise.
Contractors must be in good standing with the BBB.
It is a good thing if it is used correctly, there are safe gaurds in place to make sure morons like you cant rate themselves or competitors and i would be surprised if the ratings are still posted.
I have been a member for 9 years and love it, it has helped us sort through the fly-by-nighters such as yourself.
Better than Angie’s List
Better than Angie's List and it's free:
http://local.yahoo.com/
People, Do your homework!
As a small but growing Remodeling Contractor, I have a very hard time putting any faith in a referral service that charges contractors to advertise. It just seems hypocritical to me. I'm sure Angie's List, as well as other refferal services, started out with the best intentions and they may have even helped some people out...great, good for them. After being solicited by them to advertise to "increase my customer base", as a contractor I find their motives questionable.
I believe that an educated consumer is the best customer. DO YOUR HOMEWORK!! As a consumer and as a contractor, I always make sure to research the hell out of whatever it is I intend to puchase for my home and my business. It takes some time, some effort, and it can be a downright pain in the ass. But we are talking about YOUR money being spent to improve YOUR home, its up to YOU to do the homework!
Maybe this can help...
1. Start by asking people you trust, friends and family, if they have a contractor that they are comfortable with(Word of mouth referrals are hard to beat!)
2. You might want to try lumber yards, hardware stores, and/or paint stores for qualified contractor recommendations. Those types of businesses tend to be careful about who they refer as it reflects upon their businesses. (Your big box stores make money off of the contractors they refer, so I'd steer clear from those referrals)
3. Always get a minimum of three estimates (Most contractors might not answer your call right away because they're the one doing the work. However if you don't at least get a call back in 24 hours, then scratch that guy from your list)
4. Know the scope of work for your project, know what has to be done. (Have each bidding contractor spell the entire project out to you as they see it . ASK QUESTIONS you're not expected to know how everything is done, thats why you're hiring a proffesional! Have them explain it to you in detail)
5. Just because a contractor is the lowest bidder, doesn't nessicerily mean they're the best deal. (Get a WRITTEN itemized estimate. Again, have them explain how they came up with their number. Make sure they covered everything from permits to clean-up)
6. Always understand that UNFORSEEN VARIABLES do occur! Expect there to be changes and add ons and prepare for them. Sometimes things just go wrong, the job takes longer than expected, the scope of work changes, the extent of damage was not visable until the project was started, material shortages ect. Any decent contractor will provide a tentative time line and maintain a constant and open line of communication with their customer.
Remember its YOUR HOUSE, ask questions, be informed and involved in your project. (Staying out of the guy's way when he's working of course!)
I hope these points helped some of you who were on the fence. I'm sure that other contractors will have more good points to add. Again, ask questions and do your homework! Good luck with your project!
P.S. Speaking of homework, to all you grammar-hammers out there, I work with my hands not spellcheck!!
Renewal of Angie's list
I have had Angie's list for a year. I've accessed it just a handful of times. We're doing some minor remodeling in our house this summer and I have to renew Angie's list. I think $67 is lot. I'm hesitating. Does anyone know of any coupon codes for Angie's list?
Angies List is simply advertising- no more and no less
$67.00 for AngiesList IS a lot since all you're really doing is paying to see "advertising" from companies who have asked their friends to review them, or who have just gone out and reviewed themselves (and bad-mouthed their competititors). Just like you, business owners can pay $68 to join as apparent consumers --and then post great reviews of themselves. Angies List then charges each company between $3,000 and $5,000 a year to display them as "top-rated". Unbelievable!
The previous post has a lot of great suggestions on how to (1) find a contractor, and (2) even more important, evaluate their bids. One of the biggest problems with evaluating different contractors' bids occurs when you don't start from a level playing field. Have each contractor tell you what needs to be done, and how they will do it. Once you have heard their professional opinions, decide what you want them to bid on, be as specifc as possible, and have them all bid on the same job.
Obviously you're not an expert in their fileld– just don't let three different contractors give you three different approaches to the same job. That's how you lose control of the bidding process. When you get their bids, make sure that all they have quoted on all the things you specified, before you start comparing prices and checking your "gut feeling". You'll be amazed at the different prices you get for the same job.
Finally, when you're right down to deciding between Joe Blow and Dave Brown, ask if you can call a couple of their recent customers. That way, you'll be getting REAL reviews from REAL people who have used the business. There are (were) some good businessses on Angies List, but companies are now paying $68.00 simply so that they can review themselves. And when you constantly hear Angies List ads on the radio, or see Angies List ads in your newspaper, what do you think is paying for that advertising? Your $68.00? No--1,000s of contractors paying Angie $3,000-5,000/year so that they can "look good" and get your business.
Good luck!
Charter ISP 3rd largest in country...stinks
I subscribed to Charter.com after leaving AT&T but one is as bad as the other. They overcharge you and you cannot get the service as no one seems to know what is going on in the company. They took over WAVE a few months ago and are in a state of confusion. I was told by an installer of theirs that the majority of the office employees quit cause they couldn't stand the confusion there.
They have a captive audience with the people in this area (S.California) and we are stuck with them and cannot do anything about their charges. One business acquaintance got a bill for over $800 and was stunned, refused to pay, could not get anyone to discuss it with her and they shut off her internet service along with her telephone. This is unbelievable and it is a shame they are allowed to stay in business. They are in Ventura, Calif. on Main Street. Something should be done about them.
Angieslist Mafia business
I saw those entire fake advertises like JOE the plumber and the frustrated Dog typical examples of stupid situations like never happens and are created just to convince people about those services or set-up people business Looks like JOE has a lot of time to fool around the house whit the dog or JOE will charge a lot of money to do that and hide that extra services on the bill .I love dogs a animals in general but those advertises are pretty much oriented on older seniors or pet owners
Who cares about the dog when you are working on a time line and if you touch the dog maybe you get involve in trouble whit the owner , also you don’t have time to watch Adult movies on the customer TV !!! As a contractor must me and idiot if you do that.
I think this is a pretty much what I call mafia enterprise or one to one deal , Let ‘s put this way Angie sucks five box from every potential customer and also she select the contractor according to the money involve . If you are a contractor and paid a fee to Angie she will recommend you and you get the job.
For a small contractors and honest people you don’t get the job and instead she will spoke badly about unknown business and so cutting opportunities for a truly honest hard working people.
Just saw Angie's List on the news
I just saw a segment on my local news about Angie's List. I have been looking for a new Doctor, so I thought I would give Angie's List a try. I was surprised to find a fee for the service, as that little detail was left out of the news segment--either that or it was slipped in quickly as to make it nearly unnoticeable. I Googled Angle's List and that is how I found this site. I would never pay money to join a review site, because there are too many free ones available. I agree that they do a pretty poor job of justifying the membership fees.
I agree 100%. I was pretty
I agree 100%. I was pretty much surprised myself when i found out that the fee was charged to join Angies list. In the meantime and that is maiinly the reason why i decided to post the comment here... Angies List just called the place of my employment and wanted to talk to us about advertising.....???!!!! So let me get this straight: consumers are paying to be able to get reviews on businesses in their area..... and the same businesses are also paying to advertise (or to get a GOOD review?!) ??? I think ther are lot of other ways to get an opinion on the contractor that you want to hire and they are FREE!!!!. I was actually debating after i received a phone call from Angie's List if i should get the membership and post a review on Angies List.... about Angies List!!! It is a rip off in my opinion!!!
Angie’s List needs an
Angie's List needs an Angie's List to evaluate how good Angie's List-like websites are.
Brilliant.
I have no problems with you critiquing my grammar or spelling. However, please do so behind my back.
angies list is unfair
i am not a member of angies list, but most likely will have to join so we can combat comments made by a very revengeful past client. as a member, i assume we can post responses and do "fake" postings to combat what statements have been made. this client lost a lawsuit they started, completely lost...in fact, they have to pay our legal costs. this does not stop the client from trying to hurt us. we have done a lot of excellent work for the past 20 years, and of course have had some jobs and clients that we wish we did not work for. angies list is a revenge site, their own claim. revenge is not usually a fair fight. if anyone wants a million dollar idea, it would be to make a site that you could post things against a person....such as, the client will not make up their mind, will try to get things for free, the client will try to hold back payment on the end for minor reasons etc. i would love a database of "bad clients" to avoid.
Reviews of "bad customers"
The previous commenter says "i would love a database of “bad clients” to avoid." Exactly! I can't tell you how many of our small home improvement contractors tell us this.
This idea that "the customer is always right" is crazy. NO--the customer is NOT always right. The customer is often unreasonable, impossible to please, wants something for nothing, and/or does not want to pay for all the work they ordered.
We mediate complaints every day between customers and the companies they are "complaining" about. Roughly 50% of the time, when a customer calls or emails us with what sounds like a horrendous complaint, he or she is "wrong". (Sometimes they won't even give us their name, so there is no way to validate their "complaint"). When we contact the company being complained about, we often hear a completely different story. The customer has just got out of the psych ward, the customer hates his wife's expensive kitchen and now doesn't want to pay for it, or they simply just don't feel like paying the last bill (attorneys are the worst--just ask any contractor).
We even find that the company has NEVER worked for the customer--the customer has the wrong name! When we call the customer to tell them that they are, in effect, slandering the company, they don't seem to understand or even care. This is why AngiesList (and other review siites) are unfair and ultimately of limited use, simply because you can't "trust" the reviews.
If customers are legally allowed to say whatever they like about small businesses, many of whom are sole proprietors and therefore "individuals", what's wrong with posting unmediated and unsubstantiated "reviews" of individual customers. I can't see how that's any different. Free speech, right?
Workpost.com Pro Directory and Review System
Workpost.com has a review system that allows contractors listed in the directory to respond to negative reviews.
If a client wants to negatively review a contractor, that's fine, the client can provide information relevant to the work that was actually done (or not done) and fire away. But once a client has initiated a negative review, the contractor should be free to respond, explain the situation and perhaps negatively review the client as well.
Creating a useful, fair and unbiased review system is difficult but we are a new company willing to tackle the problem. If you have any suggestions or questions, please contact us.
http://www.workpost.com
Workpost.com Feedback
Workpost.com looks like it could be a great alternative to what's currently avaiable. I took some time to browse and liked both the layout and the simplicity. I was able to navigate through everything and find businesses in the directory, though it appears to primarily have Massachusetts businesses right now. The posting functionality could also be pretty useful as long as contractors are actually looking at the posts. There just doesn't seem to be too many listings right now and I'm not sure how long a site like this would take to gain traction and popularity. The core system is pretty good and if it is actually kept free (per the about us page) to use, then I would think it's just a matter of time before it catches on...I know I'll keep close tabs on this one for my own use!
Thanks for your comments Joe
Thanks Joe.
You're 100% correct that it takes a long time for sites like Workpost to gain traction and popularity. That's one of the reasons classifieds, directories and review sites are so difficult to build. In the beginning, no one knows you exist.
We intend to keep all of the core system that is online now free and continue to move forward. The more people who are using the site, the more incentive we'll have to keep investing time and resources in the project. Please write us if you have any more ideas or suggestions.
-Workpost Foreman
http://www.workpost.com/contact.aspx
This is a self-serving, spam
This is a self-serving, spam posting. I went to workpost.com, couldn't find any contractors in my area (california), and thought the site was difficult to use and unclear as to how contractors end up getting listed. There's a whole bunch of better alternatives, even though that's not saying much.
I'm largely inclined to agree...
Is a "Workpost.com Sucks" page due to come soon?
My blog already ranks in the top 100 for a search for "workpost.com" - there's some line about poking a skunk to see if it's dead that is running around the back of my mind on this topic ;)
Sorry you could not find any contractors in California
We're genuinely trying to create better ways to find work online. The Workpost beta site is hardly perfect but will continue to improve.
If posting on blogs like this one will help people know the site and directory exists as an alternative, so be it.
Workpost is free, we intend to keep it that way and we're not asking anyone to pay for information in the directory or for any other core services. Workpost will have ads but hopefully they will never be annoying. The ads won't make money (and don't make money) unless there are people visiting the site. People won't visit the site unless it is useful.
Sorry you could not find any contractors in California. Unfortunately, the directory has only been online for a few weeks and, without major advertising dollars, sites like these take a long time to grow.
If you don't like the site, that's fine but we'd like to know why you thought it was difficult to use or unclear. Most people who are interested in being listed in the directory seem to figure out how to sign-up and create a pro account.
And if you know of alternatives, please list them. In this economy, people should use whatever it takes to find what they are looking for.
Angie's List personal experience
I used Angie's List to find a roofer in my area. I got several names of "A" roofers and after getting several who would not do my steep roof, chose Burns and Scalo Roofing. To make a long story short, they sent untrained subs to do my roof. I'm no expert and did not realize they were terrible (e.g., not using roofing nails, not using enough nails, doing the flashing incorrectly). So, $20,000 later (due to leaks and the need to re-do my roof), I sent a critical evaluation to Angie's List. Angie's List sent this evaluation to B & S and did NOT put my critical evaluation on their website! They wanted more and more documentation (I sent photos and description, just as positive reviewers do).
I've also used Angie's list for names of other service people who turned out to be fine. My conclusion is that you go to Angie's List for names of potential companies but don't believe all the reviews. Angie's List will provide names of companies that may or may not deserve their glowing reviews. Just look at the lists. Very few are negative, so there is a very exaggerated upward bias. Go to BBB for complaints (but many people do not bother to complain, since the damage is already done).
Angies List
Angies List did not hit my radar until they started advertising on TV. (in my area thats been about 3 years). I agree that the marketing is directed towards our elders. Maybe Life Alert should get into the game. Press a button and a contractor will come running. When they first aired they actually stated the business' name but about a year ago they bleeped it out. I have not looked into it but seems to be ironic timing with the advent of paid advertising for contractors. I wonder, who takes "Papillion" out to do his thing when the plumber is not there? Are all plumbers going to have to provide this service or be considered unacceptable? I go above and beyond for my clients though rarely un-job related. I do not want nor expect this to be commented upon, especially un-job related. The important things are, did I offer a fair bid?, did I educate you to some degree as to the motives, methods and materials used?, did I perform quality work in a reasonable timeframe?, was I professional in my appearance and demeanor? Outside of that, you should not need anymore information about me professionally. The "Painters" ad really baffles me on two fronts, humans make mistakes and have accidents so unless he accepted the footprints as "bonus decor" I assume the site was cleaned up. I guess green would have been ok. On time and on budget! If their professionalism was that bad it would show in those two areas first. That may seem like more than one front but I'll consider it as one. The second front is that the painters were not found on Angies List. If so, they would have had rave reviews to be hired by this person or poor ones ignored by this person. I think the former. But actually I think this person found the painters locally and then joined AL to trash them. So actually they may have been on time but not on budget. ($60 membership = overage)
Overall it started out as a good concept. Unfortunately it has been bitten by the corporate bug. I just don't see the value in committing $60 for something you realisticlly will use a few times.
I have been doing home repairs and remodels for about 12 years now. I still have about 3/4 of the original box of business
cards I purchased when I started. I have never paid for any other form of advertising. I have a very loyal client base that has grown strictly by word of mouth. These clients call me on occasion for referrals for other services I do not perform. I only refer contractors that I have gotten to know and "witnessed" their work. If I refer a contractor that does poor work, I will get some of the blame and rightfully so. Ironically, like myself, each of these contractors are indepentends, not large companies. Everyone of my clients, I have asked their permission, are included on my reference list.
The point is this. As "small contractor Wed 6/4/08" stated, "People, Do your homework." Although allot of my clients have made comments that they didn't expect someone to be so thorough. I am not an anomaly. There are at least two or three other very competent independents in my area. There are at least that many in any community. You just have to do a little research. When you start asking around, don't just ask for contractors that do specifically the project you are needing done. If your friend, family member, co-worker..... doesn't know of a carpenter, ask about a plumber or an electrician they have used. Many times these contractors need alterations done before they can do their part and will call on someone they know and trust. I guarantee that with a little effort, you will find someone to do the work you need done as well as names for other issues in your home.
There is no science behind this. Most people ask one person for a referral. If no luck, hands in the air and start the search in the A's of the phone book. You are doing yourself a disservice and it is not much better by going to Angies List. Even if comments are available in your area, are they of people you know? Do this, pay yourself $60 dollars or $5 a month for twelve months. (I would prefer lump sum up front). Set aside two full hours of research time. Maybe not all at once but cumulative 2 hours. Spend the first 10 to 15 minutes making a list of people you know that have had work done to their house. Remember, not just the specific type you are looking into. Include the local police/sheriff and fire dept. on the list. Many members of those units work a week on and a week off and do their signature trade on the off weeks. This generally true for painting and such. Now start calling. I bet if you give due diligence, you won't use the full two hours and you will have a couple contractors for the work you need done as well as other trades for the future.
As stated in another post, don't shop lowest price. I inform my new clients that I recommend they get other bids and make sure they are getting EVERYTHING listed in my bid or more. I also inform them that I can guarantee they WILL find lower prices and possibly higher ones also. The cheapest way to get it done is to do it yourself. I am not going to get rich off of one project. In fact I won't get rich in this line of work. It is what I know and love to do it. Anyway, I am making a living at using my knowledge, abilities and tools not to mention gas insurance etc.... to provide you with a service. Anyone who does it significantly cheaper, beware. Lowballing to get the job does nobody any good. He or she is either too inexperienced to bid properly or they will cut corners to make up the difference. Either way you suffer. There is a reason that the middle price is usually the fair price. Experienced bidders know what the job is worth and will accept nothing less. Higher bids usually are contractors who purposely bid high if they are overbooked and your project is fairly urgent. This is justified by having to call booked clients and reschedule to accomodate your project. Some have allot more overhead or are inexperienced.
Also, google the type of work you need done. Many sites give fairly indepth information on methods, materials and sometimes regional pricing. I have a client that was asking alot of questions during the process of a fairly involved project. After it was completed he informed me that each night he would search the web to verify my answers. He also said after about halfway through the project he quit checking up on me however the questions continued throughout the process. Needless to say I did not give misinformation. I wish all my clients were this informed.
Cost to employ yourself to find a contractor - $60
Satisfaction of knowing you got involved other than reading a few "objective opinions" and writing the check - PRICELESS
sorry about the double post
sorry about the double post
Got Refund from AL, Site Censors Bad Reviews
I have an investment property and used Angie's List for a plumber. I contacted the top 2 plumbers on the list and they agreed to be my tenant's primary plumbers. They never returned their calls or showed. The truly dumb thing is that I searched for plumbers for DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES and only 4 people were listed in a 10 mile range. This is an international city!!!! 4 results?! LA is not a small city. <--- I complained to AL and they said not all areas going to have results.
I'm a photographer and needed someone to photograph my wedding (Hell, I couldn't shoot it myself). The photographer's work/attitude was horrible so I wanted to put a review. AL didn't allow me because I'm in the same field of work as the vendor. Well...how the hell is a PAID MEMBER suppose to interact on it's board? A bad vendor has more priority as this PAID MEMBER. I understand competition bad mouthing others BUT the business needs to resolve the fact that a member wants to use the services he paid for: to read and post reviews.
No more subscriptions to AL for me
I had some good luck with Angie's list but I had no idea they would provide the vendor with my personal information when I made a review. I'd never had made one if I had known, whether it was a good or bad experience.
When the lastest subscription came, I was astonished at the rate increase and did not renew.
Unfortunately, they have decided my personal information is theirs to sell: Two nights ago, I got a phone call from AL (I hung up). The next day, I got a pure advertising flyer in the mail.
Greed, greed, greed. I am so sick of it.
Beware of "member numbers"
When Angie's List tells prospective advertisers that they have the potential to reach 30,000 members in their market they will really only have the potential to reach 15,000. They (Angie's List) considers each household as having 2 members.
ANGIE'S LIST BUSINESS MODEL SHOULD BE ILLEGAL
I am a progressive small business owner, have had dealings with unfairly unhappy customers willing to do damage (for the purposes of this content, just trust me on that statement) and have done my own research including calls and emails to Angie's List to determine who and how they do business. I also listen to Air America. I hear them touting Angie's list on the radio and am actually quite shocked that well informed people like Thom Hartmann would actually stoop to such decadent corruption of his own stated politics.
Angie's List in itself is anti-trust and one big defamation generator. Imagine what will happen if they continue to grow and as a business wonder you MUST cow to Angie's List and their demands or NOT be in business? That is the end all be all for Angie's List. Unfair control and profit through intimidation. They take money from both sides, pitting angry consumers and defensive business owners against one another while growing rich literally off of libel, slander, and a war of words.
Very much unlike the Better Business Bureau -which is federally funded and regulated- Angie's list is a "some guy" business (started by some guy. like Facebook) reaping rewards for a clever scheme. Just like the poorly named Rip-off Report and Pissed Consumer, Angie's List (named by Bill Oesterle after some intern who used to work for him over a decade ago) profits from the anger and misfortune of it's client base. There is actually a negative sum return for being successful with their business model. Imagine if they reported so much positive that people turned to Angie's List only for referrals to good businesses based solely on "the Honor System?" There are more websites like this one that state the obvious contrary than there are consumer protection sites. Angie's List is a grocery file full of lies and corrupt business tactics and practices.
For those of you who think that any such process would work under any human condition without oversight, I can list hundreds of billions of examples to the contrary all over the world. Angie's list is primarily made up of angry people willing to spend money and time to get back at a business or contractor or person of some stripe because they feel they were wronged. Certainly, there are many occasions where they certainly were, and want to spread the word about a very bad company or product or service, but people do not generally work that way. It is human nature not to bother with compliments but to obsess over complaints. Ask any business owner; small or large, or just go to the local library and check out books on business ethics and statistics. It is all there for anyone to understand and not bother with conjecture of any other ideal. This is not a Hobsian world view, just a scientifically proven one. And Angie's List profits from that innate primate behavior complex.
I could go on about what I found out, I could ramble about how they refuse to answer direct questions repeatedly over the phone about how they derive their information, how they protect themselves from spurious and wrongful allegations, how they protect themselves from legal entanglements while their "customer base" is continually and constantly sued by angry business owners who attempt to intimidate the complaining party, only to find out that the person who made the complaint was not REAL. You have heard it stated in this string repeatedly that you only need a free temporary email account and the ability to fake information about the circumstances. They even take Paypal, adding another level of secrecy as to whom the fees are generated from.
Here is a perfect example (again, assume for the sake of example that this viewpoint is true and real)
"I have been in business for over two decades. I do my best to make happy clients. I use expensive tools, parts, supplies, textiles, and media to offer the best in the business. My business is in many ways based on word of mouth along with all the money we spend on advertising, so it is important to me and my business model to have each job go smoothly and to conclude with a client wiling to rave to another potential client. But I have had some unhappy customers over the years that were willing to complain vehemently when they were unhappy. Some were pressed for final payment, some were asked to complete their end of the bargain, but admittedly, like all businesses, and there were a handful that actually had a reasonable complaint. Each one of those people were treated with respect and with concern for their satisfaction. I and the people who work for me are not perfect. We are human, but we use my commitment to quality and satisfaction as a guide in every choice we make to ensure they are happy or eventually mollified.
If you go to put in a countertop and while bringing it in someone's house, you knock off a little corner that is bad. If you try to then install it anyway and hope the customer will not notice or complain, that is bad business. Good and evil are always one decision away. As a successful business owner, I have my own morality, my business ethics, the law, and a good reputation to keep me honest and willing to placate even the most unfair client for the last twenty two years. But sometimes there is nothing you can do to fix things because that person is unfairly angry and egregiously hostile (to begin with) and now willing to attack a new target because of something that you have no control over.
The Italian Marble you were waiting for now is going to take another two weeks because someone in Tuscany dropped a truck on your marble slabs. Nothing you can do about it, but now the home owner is pissed that he has to wait, and wants me to buy the marble elsewhere despite the fact that if I did, I would be paying him to have me put in his marble and that by the time I procured said marble, it would be another two weeks anyway. So, in the day and age of easy internet access, he lashes out and PERMENENTLY besmirches and sullies two decades of good reputation in under an hour with a well worded diatribe about me and my business. And now, Google, Yahoo, Dogpile, and others have "XXX sucks" as the first and second hits when you type in my business name. Worse, when you type in my own name it shows up as the very first link, with total disregard for the delineation between me and my business, which is why I am incorporated. My name and everyone in the world who has my first and last name combination gets to see this lying libelous defamation whenever they use a search engine, be it Egypt, Tokyo, or New Jersey. And they do float to the top of the list, having made large monetary arrangements with the corporations that run the search engines without a single care for the ham it does to small businesses everywhere."
That is a story that I read from one person who was very upset at Angie's List. I cannot validate the authenticity but do not have to. The above story is a perfect example of why Angie's List should be out of the reviewing business. No oversight, no community standards and practices, no way to removing incendiary comments...All this should be illegal and Angie's List is just one more example of what happens when you allow the unscrupulous to pretend that they are doing the world a service.
angies list
I went out of my way to help a young couple in the coast guard. The job actually cost me money to do. I have a nephew in the coast guard so i figured,why not help them. These two people are self made con artists. They poor mouthed and blabbered how they were screwed over by other people. Well just because they live in a middle class neighborhood they dare not admit that they poormouth. I gave them an excellent roof and yes it took longer than normal, first they went on vacation then my schedule was tied up, I did the best I could considering they were actually costing me money. Too make a long story short. Months after the job was completed, I donot know if the youngman was drunk or whatever his state of mind was. He sent a slanderous report to ANGIES LIST, before they listed it, I was contacted about joining and told it is free but I could purchase certain extras for my site. Needless to say I told them I felt their site and others are basically B.S., extorting money to keep their fat little tails in ding dongs and spring water. The next thing I knew I was the lucky contractor to be on their front page as the kind of contractor not to hire. I contacted them to remove the persons statements and was told they didnot have too, since all their doing is relaying someone elses words. I have a news flash for them... their acting as a paid agent for the people they represent. I am going to go out of my way to put them out of buisness no matter what the cost. I have a good reputation and I donot need to pay someone, who does not even live in the state , to acquire me referrences for buisness. If all it takes to start a buisness is pay some people 40 dollars, then I guess I worked my ass off for 30 years for nothing........... go figure.
By the way, Andy Greenwood and angies lists are nothing but a bunch of young, lazy, social misfits who need to get off their fat tails and get a real job instead of feeling they have power to control hardworking people's lifes.
Coast guard couple
If you haven't already, contact your local newspaper or TV station. Maybe there are other companies in your area with similar complaints.
Free speech– or libel?
Angieslist and other "review" sites claim that they can publish anything they like about a company because they (AngiesList) are not saying it themselves--they are only relaying the words of others, for whose opinions they cannot be responsible. Yahoo, Yelp, Insider Pages all say the same thing. "We have absolutely no legal liability--we are protected".
It seems hard to believe that these very definitely for-profit corporations can be exempt from lawsuits for malicious libel, especially as they actually charge consumers money to access their bullshit reviews,( that's not "free" speech). Since anyone can post anything on AngiesList, and AngiesList does not check the veracity of what's being said, so as publishers, they ARE liable for what they say.
I am sure that any money-grubbing, class-action lawyer could make a whole pile of money out of this. Either that, or the laws permitting this kind of libel will be changed very soon. When a lawyer thinks about winning a judgement against Google, or Yahoo, or AngiesList they get very excited! Millions of dollars at stake in a case like this. Just think how many aggrieved business owners will sign up as part of a class action.
Free Speech or Libel?
Unfortunately, AL is protected by law. The HomeOwners whu publish the libel are NOT. You can sue the homeowners directly. The problem? Angie's, who has more money than you do, will foot the HomeOwner's bill because if one single HomeOwner looses, Angies' reputation will collapse like a house of cards.
Now, that does NOT mean that the person who initiated the defamation will win. It does mead, however, that a small business will be out of a lot of money before they win. So nobody sues.
My two-cents.
high risk with high tech
I'm an HVAC contractor. I got a phone call from a prospective customer last week. She's about to spend 12,000 to 18,000 on a new heating system (she hasn't decided which boiler/water heater she wants yet). She says "my neigbor said I should check out Angies List before I decide who to go with. You may want to check out what someone wrote about you".
I got nuked by this bitter customer. There were bumps with the job, yet she embelished everything and lied about other details that were quite incriminating.
We do high tech heating systems and charge a lot of money. When the average HVAC contractor recommends replacing the heating appliance, we go in and quote an entirely new system with Euro panel radiators. Big bucks.
My point is simple: Some trades professionals can not do the same stuff others can do, especially in the 'skilled' trades (high tech HVAC being one). It will be either sad or humorous when some start up green kid with a "high rating" on Angies ends up trying to troubleshoot one of our Tekmar TN4 systems.
I realize I charge at the top end of the spectrum. I equate that to living by the sword, and the customer's expectations increase as they spend double or triple what the regular companies quote.
A service like Angies List can't qualify these non-tangibles.
BTW, The prospective customer wants to give me a 50% on Tuesday.
head up
Companies can respond for FREE to their reports.
Companies have access to give more information about their company and their products and services for FREE on Angie's List in their company info.
It sounds to ME, like you didn't bother to do either one, and you want to blame Angie's List.
You can advertise, but you have to have an A or B and a current report, overall.
If you are a company and you don't have at least one complaint , or somebody you couldn't make happy -you aren't doing much business.
Angie's List??
I'm happy that I came accross your review. I'm a residential contractor. I work by through customer referrals and I was hoping to use the service. It seemed too good to be true. I don't think the word "Sucks" is the most eloquent adjective, but it gets right to the point. Thanks!
Angie's List
The following holds to be true with regards to Angie's List:
Reviews submitted to Angie's list can be faked.
Reviews submitted to Angie's list can be factual.
Observed reviews are too infrequent in number for any given company to assert predictive probability. You just cannot depend on low averages to determine a reliable trend for what amounts to 2 outcomes, positive or negative. See #4 below.
Each individual's positive OR negative experience with a company is their own, a unique, and does not necessarily mean someone else will incur the same. This is the Achilles-heel of any review.
The design of charging reviewers a 'membership fee' to improve integrity, is ultimately, flawed at best.
Angies' List.
You are statistically correct. When you do the math, Angies's numbers don't add up. Contractors are obviously the loosers. Customers also loose, but this fact does not appear obvious to most.
hi
you are right if some one provide services like this .it is sure sucks.
I cancelled my angies list
I cancelled my angies list subscription and they keep billing me.
They Keep Billing me
Write to the Attorney General; the BBB; all your friends; the credit card company.
Good luck!
Could not agree MORE.
A couple of our customers have put Raves about our company on there. Shortly after that, they call and want us to advertise on their site.
Well I do not like ANGIES LIST as when I first built ESP's website I was bragging about what our customers had said about us on ANGIES LIST and put a link to their site for people to go to their site. A month later I am threatened with a lawsuit as using their logo and linking to them. We should pay them for money made by using their link, they wanted $3500 and remove link. I told them to KMA and they could try what they wanted. That was 3 years ago and link is still there.
FYI suck is a mild word to use in my opinion.
We post complaints on our site as well as praises, so I say "LIST WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING LIST"
We also have many free info videos for consumers to fix minor plumbing repairs.
Angies List
I interviewed for a job there and in the short time I was there got the impression it is very cult-like. One of the individuals who interviewed me seemed to be using my supervisor experience and online experience against me, which really through me for a loop because why wouldn't any company want that experience for a middle management position. Seems to be lots of perks if you work there, but then the tradeoff may be if they sense you can't be brainwashed into their "Angie's List uber alles" mentality then you are immediately thrown back into the pond.
Yes Angies List isn't so great.
Yes Sucks is a bit strong in my case. I also have a MAC and couldn't log in. This should be explained before going though the pain of trying to log in. Thanks for posting my opinion
To Angie or not to Angie
I was going to sign up for Angie's list. But decided to read some reviews about the review site Angie's list. After reading the hundreds of comments here i feel that Angie's list can be tricked and they can be tricking us.
The best point that made me realize it's biased was the fact that contractors are being encouraged to sell Angie's list and even buy memberships to customers so they can write good reviews.
If i'm a contractor and have 5 family members in different households, i would instantly have 5 great reviews. At a small expense that i can reimburse my family.
It just doesn't add up.
I'll save my $5/month and not be played with.
I always thought it was a great idea and i was actually one of the first free members on Angie's list then i got a renewal notification and never paid them for something i thought should be driven by ad revenue and not by my money as a consumer.
-Robert
It Sucks ....period !
Angie is obviously a woman scorned. EVERY commercial for this stupid service is negative, except for the hack plumber walking little poo poo the papion.
I wonder if she is upset over all the prostitute ads listed her ex's, Craig's , site.
ANGLIE'S LIST IS FOR SALE
A manager at Angie's List told me that the CEO, Bill Osterle, told her that the company "is always for sale." Maybe they should post an ad on Craig's List.
ServiceBuddy.com no fees for consumers
I have read your comments and many of them I agree with. AngiesList really models their business after consumer reports, where members pay for access to reviews. The difference with AngiesList is the reviews are posted by other members versus professional staff at Consumer Reviews.
We have an alternate site that offers many of the same services as AngiesList, but for no cost to the consumer members called Servicebuddy.com. We have a complete directory of local service providers for any visitor or member to search. We as well, encourage all of our members to post reviews of local businesses they have done business with in the past. In addition we have a feature that allows members to invite their friends to join and build their on private group in which they can share their reviews of their favorite (and not so favorite) companies. All of these services are free to consumer members.
We have basic free listings on the site for any business that would like to have a listing. They too can invite their customers, prospects and business associates to join and create a service referral group. For enhanced visibility of their profile they can purchase memberships that provide higher visibiity placement on the site as well as additional services such as referral program and email marketing services. All of these services are offered at very low monthly costs.
If interested check our site out at www.servicebuddy.com and let us know what you think.
Pay?
I though this was a free service to customers! Ha!! Silly me. You have to pay to get others opintions of service providers...how rude. I went there to tell people about a good tree cutting service I had. I am sure not going to pay to do that, I was just trying to be helpful. I hope they go broke, I am offended.
Angies
Yes it is a pay for. That is what I do not understand why people think they get a good report from there, There are plenty of free places to find out info. Best place to start is remember 3 words LICENSED-BONDED-INSURED. Here is 1 main reason
1. BONDED protects the consumer, even if you paid for job completely, and found out the CONTRACTOR did not do it to code, you have recourse to get money back.
2. LICENSED protects you also as an example Plumbers who are licensed are held accountable to the state that holds license. This would be for any licensed contractor. All states list on their websites this info for free.
3. INSURED now this should speak for itself, but consider this is you hire someone who is not and they have an employee, and that person gets hurt on your property, you could be held accountable as your homeowners policy.
Most legit contractors will gladly share this info. We post ours right on our website.
IT DOES SUCK!
I saw the ad on TV so thought I'd give it a try. I live in San Bernardino County in Southern Cali. When I put in my San Bernardino County zip code I am defaulted to a LOS ANGELES chapter list. Why in the heck (for lack of a better word) would I want services from a Los Angeles company when I live 45 miles East of Los Angeles? So I put in a different zip code in San Bernardino County and it told me "You're already on the LA Chapter list." I tried every San Bernardino County zip code I could think of and they alll told me the same thing: You're already on the LA Chapter list. It could be a really cool service if they actually gave companies in my area. If I wanted to hire a housekeeper, I don't want her to drive from Los Angeles to my house. The closest one to me was 27 miles away. It's ludicrous and perhaps ANGIE should look at a map of Los Angeles County and San Bernardino County. I requested an immediate refund.
Angies List for multiple locations
I have homes in DC PA and FL. If i join Angies list can I get referrals for all of these locations with one membership or do i need to pay separate memberships for each area?
Multiple Locations
Yes, you have to pay for each of these locations although not as much. I am in the St Louis Chapter and had a house in Las Vegas that needed work and wanted to check the list. I was asked for more money. I emailed them with no response. I tried calling and got to talk with a real person. They confirmed the additional cost.
I was very disappointed.
NOT SURE
I joined awhile back and really was disappointed with what they disclose and requested my $ back.
As another poster stated, you could have a dozen relatives send in good refs, and reimburse them. Do your own leg work and save the money.
Most BBB will give the info you need, always ask for references and hire a licensed, bonded and insured contractor.
Angieslist is all about them making money.
Why would I PAY to leave someone a review?
We recently moved and the moving company which was great asked us to post on Angie's list because they have tied their employees bonuses to positive reviews. Gladly, I went to Angie's list but was disappointed to see that you cannot post without paying a membership fee first. I even called Angie's list for clarification and the person on the phone was rude enough to say it was worth it since I would be "tipping" the movers. I explained that we had already "tipped" the movers but would be happy to post on the free sites instead (Citysearch, Yelp and BBB).
I have no use for helping Angie's List make money while complimenting or criticizing a company for their service. No thanks!
Angie's Europe expansion
Did Angie's List ever expand into the European market? I remember first reading articles and press releases about it in 2007. They got a lot investment capitial to expand overseas in 2008. Did that ever come through? 2008 is almost over.
Nope
I will never pay for info that is already available.
Angie's a fraud
The Angie, who couldn't swing a hammer, does hundreds of media interviews a year in which she regurgitates information from other sources and passes it off as her own. If she's this big a fraud in the media, would you really trust the data on her List?
Angie's is a fraud
I think that whole story about how the list got started when Angie, "tired of lousy service", went door to door in Columbus, OH to sign people up. Would a 22 year old college intern, probably only living in a city for 4 or 5 months, even own a house and even have a need to hire a housekeeper or plumber? Get real.
Pingback
[...] at the same time. It screams “conflict of interest” to me in an alarming way, and this heavily hit, fourth-position-in-Google blog post (and subsequent comments) shows that indeed, Angie’s List is basically the Geek Squad of consumer business listings: [...]
Contractors Perspective
From a contractor's perspective on Angie's List I have the following insight. I am a contractor in good standing with Angie's List. This isn't to say that I haven't gotten some bad reviews. I have always sought to resolve issues with customers in a timely manner that is in their favor...I just think that this is good business. The two times that we have had a seriously negative comment posted on Angie's list I found them unwilling to be reasonable (Angie's List). In one instance Angie's List representatives tried to insist that I disregard the legal contract I had with one of their members because after we did $10,000.00 worth of work she decided it was only worth $3000.00, EVEN THOUGH SHE WAS SATISFIED WITH THE WORK. In the other instance, Angie's List agreed that the customer was completely unreliable in his report and that it was obviously biased but refused to remove the report from my record. After the second COMPLAINT they pursued me for two weeks to advertise in their mailers, on their website, etc... Angie's List makes money when the "good" companies spend thousands of dollars a month to advertise with them. They are an advertising firm! They strong arm contractors into advertising with them to "maximize" their standing with Angie's List. While it is true that you don't have to pay to be listed on their website you DO have to pay to be in any of their publications or to have a "top spot" on their website. This is a total sham! - Brian
25% true, 75% Bullcrap
I've seen this as well, not to mention the fact that most reviews are fake. So you have 25% good reviews by people self promoting, you have 25% fake negative reviews from competitors ambushing other competitors, and 25% vindictive reviews from unreasonable and crazy miserable customers who are trying to get something for nothing out of their contractor, and maybe, just maybe, 25% of the reviews are accurately represented.
DON'T HIRE ANGIES LIST
DO NOT DEPEND ON CONTRACTORS' LISTS TO HIRE A COMPANY. Lists such as Service Magic and Angie's List are basically advertising companies DISGUISED as consumer protection agencies.
ANYONE WHO PAYS ANGIE'S can post a comment. -- Contractors love it because they brother-in-law, friends, relatives, and church members can join Angies and give the contractor great reviews! -- Competitors' of the contractor love it because they can get their own sister to give a negative review. -- Angie's loves it because they make millions of dollars making believe these are legitimate ratings. -- Consumers love it because they are led to believe that their worries are over.
THE PROBLEM? A lot of people still get RIPPED OFF. First, by Angie's who smiles all the way to the bank, then by the contractor. EVEN IF THE CONTRACTOR YOU HIRE HAPPENS TO BE A GOOD ONE, you just played roulette with your money!
ANGIES LAWSUITS
GUESS WHAT?
TO PROVE THAT A.T.T. DAMAGED ANGIE'S BECAUSE OF ALlEGED TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENTS, ANGIES LIST HAD TO DECLARE THAT IT LOST REVENUES FROM CONTRACTORS WHO ADVERTISE ON THEIR LIST.
Wow!
THEY ADMITTED IN COURT, IN WRITING, THAT CONTRACTORS PAY TO BE RATED TOP AND TO BE ON THEIR LIST!
go to:
http://indianalawblog.com/archives/2007/12/ind_courts_angi.html
In ANGIES' OWN WORDS YOU WILL SEE THAT THEY EMPHATICALLY ADMIT THEY ARE PAID BY CONTRACTORS!
In Addition, you will see how the real barracuda is not Palin, it is Angie's.......:-(
no they did not
what ever you are reading you are translating it very very differently. companies do not pay to get rated -not now, not ever. they can not put themselves on the list to any advantage and usually get caught. the companies CAN advertise ONLY if they are already submitted to the list by a customer, and already have a good rating...THEY ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT PAY TO GET A GOOD RATING -NOR DOES ANYONE AT ANGIE'S LIST DO ANYTHING TO MANIPULATE A COMPANY'S RATING, NOR DID ANYONE IN THE AT&T CASE, OR ANY OTHER CASE THAT WORKS FOR ANGIES LIST MAKE ANY SUCH STATEMENT. companies that are submitted to angie's list by a customer with a good rating are eligible to advertise to get more members calling them -but that does not change their rating at all -it might change where they are in the list -that's it -that does not change their rating. they have to have a high rating already to be offered the opportunity to advertise by moving themselves up in the list, or by placing an ad in the magazine. if a company's grade falls below a B, they drop the advertising for that company. the reason angie's list does so well, is because people know there are others out there that will cheat and lie as you have to get other peoples money.
usually - that's reliable
You're writing this as someone who either works for the company or did or, for some other inexplicable reason, seems to really like the company. And yet, you said:
Usually? You're going to put your faith in usually?
For $5 a month I want more than usually. Like, maybe a system based on my known peers that I can trust.
I'll take "usually"
So, they "usually" get caught. I'll take it. I'm glad there's some sort of a safety net at all, unlike similar sites that have none.
And I'd love a system based on "known peers that I can trust," but I'm new in Atlanta and don't know many people. Angie's List was simply the easiest, most convenient way to find contractors (and I'll need a doctor eventually, too). It's worked well so far, and I get several little perks like their magazines and tips, which makes it well worth the fee.
ANGIES LIST HAD BAD REVIEW ON TV
Go to: http://multimedia.tbo.com/multimedia/MGBW16DA92E.html
Inside Angie's List In Tampa
Published: Dec. 2, 2004
TAMPA - The reputation of the Tampa Bay chapter of Angie's List is under attack. Some former employees say advertisers got preferential treatment, a charge the owner denies.
Online Producer: TBO.com staff
Reporter: Stacie Schaible/WFLA
I did review the video and I
I did review the video and I believed the employees. Angie's would have sued if it were defamatory.
TV investigation of Angies LIst needs wider dissemination
While this Florida report is four years old, it confirms every worst suspicion about Angies List. Why is National Public Radio accepting "sponsorship" (advertising dollars) from such a horrendously compromised, for-profit organization which makes money by claiming to protect consumers by making them pay for supposedly impartial and unedited "reviews".
Do consumers know that they can be sued and held liable for their comments on Angies List --but that Angies List itself is not liable?
Check out the piece at:
http://multimedia.tbo.com/multimedia/MGBW16DA92E.html
So there is someone dumb enough to fall for this scam?
Wow, I thought people were smarter now. At least the Nigerian scams promise huge sums of money in return...
Let's see:
- For a trivial sum, a company could easily manipulate their rankings
- For many of the services they list, there are already numerous agencies collecting and reporting complaints, comments, etc.
- It's expensive, especially when you consider that most other ratings services are free
If you're seriously considering this service, you need to examine the voracity of some of the defenders here, and ask yourself what typical user of the service would respond in this manner, versus what some paid lackeys might post. There doesn't seem to be much integrity in this case.
angie's list
one: this link to this fake tampa article doesn't go anywhere -it doesn't tell you anything about who the employees are, and just so you are aware, there is not an Angie's List office in Tampa -all their employees are in Indianapolis. This can't be any more fake. The landing page for this link takes you to a 1/2 created web page with two links to angie's list landing page.
Service Providers can not pay to get onto Angie's List or put themselves on there. Sure, someone can try as this blogger suggests, but here's the catch. Unlike free lists, when you pay the money for Angie's list to make a report, they also get additional info from the person for additional services the new member receives other than the list access. So say a company owner is dumb enough to do this, right, they put in a report under a fake name -good, great, now what? If you get on Angie's List with only ONE report - you won't get any calls, you won't be seen much -you are basically on page 5-7-9 of the online list in a category being mixed up with 100-400 others with ONE report. It is only with several reports from different members that a company starts to get seen. So say Mr. dumb company owner cheats and puts himself on the list, he can only make a report on the same company once every six months. So Mr. cheater would then have to sign up for many memberships in order to create many fake memberships, and make many fake reports, and I'm sorry, but this person WILL get caught and when they do they will be removed from Angie's List. Folks like Mr. Cheater don't use Angie's List -they go to a FREE list and do that -one of the same ones that are out there where you can also hire a hit man, or a prostitute -something Angie's List stays away from - Angie's List is for a more upscale user - someone that is intelligent, wants to avoid unscrupulous contractors like Mr. Cheater -who would probably cheat the customer as well in the end. Having to pay for a membership also protects the companies from having folks like Mr. Cheater make fake negative reviews on their competition (they won't want to pay -they use the free lists for that), and from customers that don't pay their bills. Folks like MR. Cheater, not only will submit fake reviews about their company on the free lists, but will also submit fake leads on service magic to send their competition chasing all the fake leads while they themselves chase the real ones -meanwhile they're competition still has to pay for that lead even though it was found to not even be a real customer. One guy that works out here in Portland in my area paid over $3000 per month for fake leads submitted by another service provider before the problem was found out! Other FREE lists are notorious for getting customers that want to nickel and dime a job. Free lists are like phone books - you don't know who you'll get coming to your house, and you can't trust the reviews on there. That's why the customers out here like Angie's List. The service providers that constantly try to cheat the system don't like it for obvious reasons. And of course the places like Craigs List and Service Magic don't like the competition, and the fact that Angie's List tracks everything. These folks at Angie's List can actually tell you how many people looked at your company in a month, how many people called them about you, they can go back to the customer and ask questions about the report (free lists can't because all they have is a fake email address that doesn't get checked after the initial confirmation), the reports fall off after 3 years so you aren't labeled forever by one bad review even though all the rest are good. The companies that are on Angie's List, the right way and don't cheat, and do what Angie's List suggests to improve your business, and take advantage of all the free stuff they give you and the advertising if you are so inclined -they are doing really well. I have friends that say they are getting 80% or more of their business from them.
Angies
ANGIE is that you?
I thought you were in BLOOMINGTON, MN. how did you end up in Indianapolis.
Crazy Angies PR person above
What are you talking about? The Clearwater (not Tampa) TV station review is "fake"? Maybe you cannot use a computer--it takes you right into the show. The people cited are all identified in Clearwater, and filmed in the office there, while the other two former employees interviewed were from the San Francisco office. As one of them said, "Angieslist is compromised to the core."
You still think the list isn't gamed every day, and that you have some way of stopping it? We have been gaming Angies list in Chicago, Philadelphia and San Jose for the last two years. It has cost us $140 to become members in the three AngiesList chapters. Thanks to the reviews our staff posts every couple of months, our offices now come up top or near the top, way above other businesses with one or two reviews. (Here's how you do it--you join Angieslist for $25-50, write a few reviews of some places that you do know, and then you can start posting fake reviews about anyone you like--good ones for yourself and bad ones for your competition--because as far as Angie knows, you are a real person.)
(2) I can assure you that we are not getting anywhere near "80% of our business from Angies List". Yes, we do get SOME business from it, but nothing like we get from Yellow Pages or Google organic and paid search. We also find that Angieslist sometimes brings us hostile prospective customers who say things like, "if you don't give me a discount, I'll write a bad report on AngiesList." This has been confirmed by numerous contractors in this blog. This is exactly why Angieslist encourages negative reviews in their advertising – because a bad review gives them an opportunity to call the company with an offer to "fix" the bad rating, i.e., if you pay them to advertise. Again, also confirmed numerous times in this thread.
No doubt there are still some Mayberry communities where Angieslist is fairly accurate, based on genuine reviews from well-meaning people who don't understand that their review simply means that the company will be immediately solicited by Angieslist salespeople. (They call our franchises every week with some kind of sales pitch). But in larger cities, people know that Angies can be manipulated--just like all the other "review" sites, such as Yelp, InsiderPages, CitySearch, etc. We game those, too. But all of them combined only generate a small proportion of our incoming leads.
Last week Angielist got another 60 million dollars of venture capital. This is a business which hopes to make a lot of money until it is exposed as a massive conflict of interest, if not a total fraud. You'd think they'd spend some of that money having a more professional PR flack doing damage control here.
you may be...
According to my friend who works there
So what if you paid to put fake reports on there...eventually they will figure it out. She doesn't want to tell you all the details of how and give you the heads up, BUT she also says that even though YOU may have paid for several memberships she says for that money -in those markets, you can ONLY submit one report per company every six months. Now if you purchased several memberships in one market, and put up several fake reports for your company. Well, then you are ONE of the FEW that would be dumb enough to spend the money to do that. YOU might be doing that -but the majority of HONEST companies on Angie's List DON'T DO THAT, and MOST DISHONEST companies don't want to have to spend the money to do it LIKE YOU DID. So what YOU are doing is RARE in ANY market. YOU only did it so you could show you could buck the system, and MOST LIKELY will get caught, and will be removed from the list. Once that happens, NOT ONLY, will you be taken off the list, but you will lose all the good business you could have gotten honestly. NOT MANY HONEST companies that do good work will go as far as you did to cheat. they use the FREE lists most of the time for that. Sure, you might get someone once in a while that manages to slip by, BUt they are few, and if they are willing to cheat on Angie's List, they'd cheat a customer as well.
tons of companies are getting tons of business from Angie's List. AND, with the ecomony the way it is -they are getting more -every source out there is telling you that the companies that will survive and still be in business in 2010, are going to be the ones that focus on places like Angie's List. the people who are willing to pay for names of good contractors, are people who are going to pay the contractor as well. the people who call from the phone book are more likely to stiff you on part of the bill. Angie's List is a great way to prequalify both ways -customers prequalify us by reading the reports -which MOST OF THE TIME are honest reports when you compare it to any other source out there -Angie's List still trumps.
AS I said before -with exception of very few people who are LIKE YOU, most of the info on angie's List is accurate and trustworthy.
When you sign up for a membership -you have to give email, mailing address, and stuff like that -how were you able to get fake addresses -relatives? You really went to a LOT OF TROUBLE to do this -WOW! Now how many others do you actually think would go to that much trouble -COME ON! dumb@#$@
Can it be done? -of course! How many would actually do it! That is what people will have to take into consideration, and get a reality check buddy! YOU were OBVIOUSLY on a mission, okay ...good, fine -SO WHAT!??? Another contractor, MIGHT pay for ONE membership-but then they can only make one report on the same company every six months -that won't put them anywhere that will get them business -it's a waste of money -THE SAME MEMBER, CAN NOT MAKE A REPORT, ON THE SAME COMPANY -EVERY TWO MONTHS -if you're doing that -you are using several different fake memberships. tHE average JOE, IS NOT GOING TO DO THAT JUST TO GET ANGIE'S LIST'S GOAT. ONLY folks like YOU would do something so stupid. RARELY will this happen. YOU are trying to get it to happen -sure...whatever...but they will find you. don't worry about that.
They should take this site off the internet -this guy is obviously a mental patient. AND you must have strong ties with GOOGLE to get your site to come up so high in the internet searches every time -paying for that too? What a head case!
google - unlike aniges list
Most of what you have to say is opinion, and unfounded opinions that have been refuted already in this thread. But this little gem caught my eye:
"They" don't control the internet. It's owned by everyone and you can post your comment here just like everyone else.
And within the Google results (or GOOGLE as you seem to prefer) you cannot pay to get a higher listing (unlike Angies List - at least the Angies List described in the news report and by small businesses here).
This is all such crap.
This is all such crap. Angie's List is located in Indy and has no "offices" anywhere in the U.S. That "news report" is bogus. Also, you can't just sign up and post reviews for your business once you've posted a few reviews. How do I know? Because I did work at Angie's List and I am quite familiar with how things work there. They really do read every report and verify the information. Also, that isn't some PR hack writing above from Angie's List. Their PR people are better than that. All said, as now an outsider looking in, Angie's List is a credible way for homeowners to find good service contractors and avoid the bad. Bottom line.
I guess that proves it
If you say so, I guess that proves it!
Except that you didn't leave a name or an e-mail address. Which makes you less credible.
And there are multiple people including people who left a name and e-mail address who have confirmed that they performed the exact kind of cheating of Angies list that you claim is impossible.
So, to the extent that this site has a rating system, your comment gets an F.
no one claimed it was impossible
They are saying it could happen, but they will get caught, and taken off the list -just because this contractor that doesn't like Angie's List did what he did -doesn't prove anything. My friend says she tells the contractors flat out -oh sure -it can be done, but they'll get caught, and even if they do post a report on Angie's List for their own company -they'd have to buy several memberships, in effort to get enough reports for it to make any difference.
Reality check:
1. Most business owners are not cheaters like that.
The ones who are cheaters and have that mentality -won't want to pay for it like this guy did. If they do, they'd try paying for one -tops. Majority. Usually these guys don't pay attention too much to the fact that one report won't do them any good when they do it -they find out after that they wasted their money.
People like this guy, had a grudge, had an ax to grind, and was on a mission. His 100% intent was to try and discredit Angie's List. I don't know of any contractors in my business that will go that far to do what this guy did -nor do I know any GOOD contractors that have THAT MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS. Seriously!
IF ANYTHING -THIS GUY JUST PROVED THAT ANGIE'S LIST DOES WHAT IT SAYS IT DOES! LOOK AT HOW MUCH MONEY TOTAL WITH GOOGLE PAYMENTS, WEBSITE SERVER/MAINTENANCE, NUMBER OF MEMBERSHIPS IN DIFFERENT CITIES, ALL THE FRIENDS & RELATIVES THAT HAD TO BE INVOLVED TO GET MAILING ADDRESSES FOR THE MEMBERSHIPS -EMAIL ADDRESSES, CALLING THE OTHER COMPANIES THEY MADE FAKE REPORTS ON TO EXPLAIN WHAT THEY WERE DOING -ETC ETC...JUST TO GET THAT DONE. That 100% proves, in order to cheat Angie's List-you have to really really really want it, and for a reason like the one this guy had -other companies are NOT going to spend the money #1, and they don't have the time to do all the stuff this guy has had to do, in effort to get reports in there, and keep from getting caught up to this point. That SPELLS IT OUT CLEARLY that Angie's List is pretty darn accurate, and MOST of their info is real.
Thanks for the info...
Looking past all the strange posts on here, I think I have made my decision not to join Angieslist.com. I'm very hesitant to give my address out on the internet and wanted to see what others thought of the site before joining. I found more than enough reasons not to join. Namely that $5-$7/mo seems slightly ridiculous to me when I'm already in the contracting business (as a book keeper). And also knowing that it's a for profit company. Some post mentioned that they will get bigger and they will likely get greedier.
I'll stick to word of mouth since I'm fortunate enough to know some good contractors who can either help me or refer me on to someone else.
Thanks for (most) this discusion!
I agree, Angie's List does SUCK
My company has an excellent rating from angies list, unfortunately 12 of the 14 reviews were posted by my staff, so yes, their system isn't foolproof, I suspect 20%-40% of the reviews are planted. We did this after a vindictive former client posted numerous rants and raves on angies list about us. This client was so hard to deal with, before we started the job, we actually fired her and gave her back all her money (even though we were stock with thousands of dollars of custom ordered non returnable materials).
Even though we have an excellent rating, as the previous poster mentioned, we too do not like Angie's list clients.
Interesting
If you don't like Angie's List clients, why did you care enough to have 12 reviews posted by your staff to essentially cancel out a negative review?
If you don't want Angie's List members as your clients, leave the negative reports there and assume that they won't call you.
"If you don't like Angie's
"If you don't like Angie's List clients, why did you care enough to have 12 reviews posted by your staff to essentially cancel out a negative review?"
Are you REALLY so fucking stupid that you can't answer this yourself?
"If you don't want Angie's List members as your clients, leave the negative reports there and assume that they won't call you."
Apparently you are, as that's not what he said.
You see, "don't like" IS NOT THE SAME AS "won't take money from".
The fact that you are incapable of seeing the difference is just more evidence that you're a fucking idiot.
Thoughts on the Rebuttal System
Alex,
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on our Workpost.com rebuttal system. We believe that there are two sides to every story and contractors should be able to offer their perspective on a job when negative reviews (or positive for that matter) are posted. Users can decide who to believe when they read the reviews. Thoughts?
Angielist Advertising
I never heard of angieslist before, but today I received a call from a high-pressure sales persons who informed me that I as "reviewed" by one of their "members." Furthermore he emailed me the following:
"If you’re ready to take on more of our members, look at the information I provided. You already have a company in your area that is participating with our offer. He is seeing 13 times the interaction with our members (for every member who will view your information, he will have 16 members look at his).
Individual Elements for Remodeling (Can be purchased individually)
Web: $41/mo
Call Center: $38/mo
Web Enhancement: $50/mo
Full Page Color E-Pub: $63/mo
Total: $192/mo.
Package 1: Web & Call Center: $52/mo (Save $324/yr.)
Package 2: Web, Call Center, Color E-Pub: $112/mo. (Save $360/yr.)
Package 3: Web, Call Center, Color E-Pub, & Enhancement: $132/mo. (Save $720/yr.)
*IN DECEMBER IF A PACKAGE IS PURCHASED YOU WILL RECEIVE AN ADDITIONAL 10% OFF YOUR MONTHLY PRICE! "
From this email it is obvious that angieslist's is primary concern is selling overpriced advertising to be distributed to its limited--members only--market. If access to this website was free, or at least somewhat viewable to those who is not registered then these prices may be justified.
trying out a new referral service
Over the past 3 years we've done ~$120K of home improvement, dealing with both good and bad contractors. The process of finding good contractors is a hassle and is definitely a problem that is still waiting to be solved. I tried Angie's list and in the end felt that the service provided was not worth the money because Angie's List contractors seemed no better or worse than others. I do respect them however because they are trying to solve a legitimate problem.
Having an engineering, small business, and an Internet background, I decided to take a look at the problem myself (www.eugeneslist.com). Right now its strictly a local service in the Tucson area that does not rely on reviews but on personal relationships with contractors and interviews with customers after the job is done. Its a work in progress, so I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks,
Eugene
blocked a user
Hi folks,
There's been a lot of comments today that were rather rude. I decided to require registration on the site prior to commenting (again) because that seems to remove the nasty tone from the conversation.
What's really interesting about all these comments is that they are all in favor of Angies List and came from the same computer. That computer is an IP address that has a user-friendly name angieslist-colo.iquest.net
It seems awfully ironic that the person who claims that
is using a computer from Angies List to post these messages. I'm not surprised that an "insider" is posting messages, but I am surprised that they are doing it from inside the company.
why are comments rude
There are probably ten zillion other comments on this site that are even MORE rude, but so long as they "bash Angie's List" you don't have a problem with it, BUT if someone who logs in, and starts letting people know what the real scoop is, and tells what is really going on -THEY ARE RUDE. Very funny.
I am a good friend of both people and the person who was wanting to get the truth set right is not an employee of Angie's List. She is friends with an employee of Angie's List, and became one after having been a member for a long time. Angie's List is a good site. The only problems they've ever encountered like this are from those who either don't do their own homework, and simply believe the 1/2 truths told by those who have an ax to grind here, or they are contractors who are upset because they can't buck the system, or get an "easy ride" -they have to actually put forth effort and do a good job -OMG! How terrible for them!
The comments were in no way rude. They were setting the facts straight. I think it is interesting that you "blocked" someone who was in FAVOR of Angie's List and wonder how many people who have tried to post here, and set the record straight, had their comments removed, or blocked because they weren't on your side???? I guess now I'm being rude. Just for the record also -it wouldn't be a coincidence that "Drupal" -your computer based baby, happens to work with companies that feel like Angie's List is a road block for them, or because Angie's List didn't want Drupal. And while Angie's List just has YOU blogging...really no one else to speak of is negative toward Angie's List, but -have you seen the pages and pages of "Drupal Sucks.com" websites???? Wow! NO surprise. Very very interesting. And let me also say this -if you do what you did to block this one, or try to drop a bad cookie -we'll know EXACTLY where it came from Greg Knaddison!
welcome to the site
There are anti-angies list comments that are rude, but people made one or two of them and then stopped. In my opinion, that's a reasonable way to behave on a site like this.
In this case, all that I blocked was the IP address of the user which, as I said, came from inside angies list. I think it's pretty fitting for me to block reviews from the company itself since that is AngiesList.com policy.
For the record, I've only ever deleted duplicate comments or obvious spam comments. If you read the whole page, you'll see that I've reprimanded both pro and anti Angies List commenters who went overboard.
What makes a comment rude?
* Ad hominem attacks
* Overuse of capital letters
* Overuse of punctuation
You seem to enjoy these last two items as well. Please try to keep it civil.
Angie's List
Angie's List has its place for people who are willing to pay the signup and membership fees. But with all that I have read around the net about how a service provider can engineer their rating I don't know whether I would trust a strangers assessment of any service provider. People just need to use their good sense and buyer beware. I was looking for a guy to install a couple of interior doors for me recently and found one here under contractor:
http://www.bighardhat.com
I think you just have to use your good sense and do your research. You can't trust anyone else to protect you from your own stupidity.
I hear a lot of good comments
I hear a lot of good comments from businesses getting referrals from Angies, but I don't get it either. Yelp is free, and as always you have to read reviews with a skeptical eye. Like this one (which is a great way to generate traffic by creating controversy).
You're Obviously an Opinionated Big Mouth Who is Envious
I just saved $500 on an auto repair thanks to Angie's List. What the Hell do I care what YOU think? Who the Hell are YOU anyway? You probably wish YOU had thought up Angie's List yourself and are envious of its success.
Go back under the rock you came from.
Stop posting forever
"What the Hell do I care what YOU think? "
Good question, the answer is
"You apparently care enough to track down the, and go through the process necessary to compose and post a derogatory and childish rebuttal".
Nice job genius.
I like the service
I like the service and think the reviews are reliable. All the other services people have been talking about are far more open to fraud. Yes, people don't want to pay the 5/mo, but if you do a remodel or an exterior paint job you are investing thousands into your contractor.
Alternative to Angie's List
So, I am a painting contractor (Fresh Coat Painting) in Portland, Oregon who uses Angie's List. I've read hundereds of reviews of other contractors and found them very useful to understand what customers are looking for and I really like Angie's List customers. They tend to be informed and focused on cost effective jobs rather than just cheep work.
A contractor can comment on negative or possitive reviews from customers. If there were a problem with fraud that there has been so much speculation about on this thread contractors would point it out. If a competitor had people hire me so then they could give me poor reviews I could comment on it. And, that would be increadibly expensive to have friends hire me for painting just to give me a bad review. And contractors could pay the yearly price and give themselves good reviews but I doubt that happens much. Especially when contractors like me have dozens of reports on Angie's list. And if you were to ever think that a review is not real at Angie's List, or my site http://www.portlandhousepainting.com, you can ask for that customer's number and call them.
I don't like paying for advertizing on Angie's list but I really like their customers. And what is the alternative?
I have looked at all the sites people have mentioned and found them very problematic. All the sites are much more open to fraud then Angies. I've had a problem on a site for a while where someone can give me a rating with no login much less a yearly fee.
If you look at Portland Painters on Angies you will find hundereds of companies and thousands of comments. If you go to a site like yelp that people have recommended you will find 0 reviews.
It's not perfect but the fraud people have been talking about is a minor to irrelevent issue in my opinion, fraud is a much bigger proplem with any other site, $5/mo isn't much money if your thinking about large projects (and you care about quality, reliability, service or price) and most importantly I see nothing even close to the quality of Angies List in the links folks have suggested so far.
Please inform me of good alternatives and I'll use them.
RE: Angies List Alternative - Workpost.com
To a fresh coat painting,
I understand your perspective on the pay to use service and why that could hypothetically eliminate fraud, but the reality is that there is no perfect review system out there. If contractors want to manipulate results, the bottom-line is that where there's a will, there's a way. Spending $100 to get a handful of good reviews put up by friends is still a negligible amount of money the benefit that a contractor could receive. At Workpost.com, we have accepted that fact and elected to keep our site 100% free. That said, we do require sign-up prior to posting reviews and have designed our site with some unique behind the scenes restrictions. To help pros deal with difficult clients and negative reviews, we have built in a response/rebuttal system that ensures fair, balanced assessments of work completed. Also, our directory is entirely user-generated so listings adjust as businesses change and listings are not populated by the reviewer, but instead by the businesses themselves.
Workpost.com is built on the premise that if consumers have more information and more options then they will be able to make a more educated decision when selecting a contractor. Users can post work they need done and contractors that are interested in the job can respond. Once the consumer has a list of contractors, our directory becomes a reference point to understand more about the businesses and read reviews. It's our hope that once a contractor has been selected and work completed, users will circle back to Workpost and write a review for other members to utilize as part of the decision making process.
We are dedicated to continuing to improve our website, so please check it out and provide whatever advice or constructive criticism you may have. Hopefully you will find Workpost.com to be a viable alternative!
fundamental difference
here is a fundamental difference between your perspectives that I don't think is entirely clear, but I feel is important:
A fresh coat painting said:
Conor says:
Angies List materials talk about how customers submit reviews which leads people to believe that you have to use a service to do a review...but in reality anyone can submit a review.
Angies List Differences
Thank for the link to workpost.com. I've gone and posted there. We have great word of mouth and are staying busy enough this winter; however, winter is always a tough time in our industry and with the economy I'm working hard to keep enough work coming in to keep my employees working. . .
The big difference with the two quotes pulled above is that we are talking about positive vs. negative reviews. If someone posts a negative review of my company on Angies I can dispute it. If they were not a real customer it's removed. So a competitor would have to have friends hire me then write a negative review. That would cost serious money, take a lot of effort and is extremely unlikely.
The other side is that a contractor could pay for positive reviews. You're right -- one could pay the fees, figure out how to get past safeguards, write intelligently enough to make his reviews seem like they are from different people and get some initial positive reviews. That is still a substantial investment of time, expertise and $ for a disreputable contractor. Frankly most disreputable contractors are just total flakes. And then when this contractor started getting work from Angies list would he retain his solid A rating? Very doubtful. After another person or two used him you would see his negative reviews. Again I think this type of fraud is rare to non existent on Angies list but is a real problem on all the web sources cited except the BBB.
Then you would hire a contractor like me from the list where all my reviews are positive, obviously different from each other, from members that have commented on multiple contractors. Our you would hire one of my competitors like the one that has 150 reviews.
And you might decide to go the extra step that everyone tells you to take no matter where you hear about the contractor -- call references. I'd tell you to go to my testimonials page pick any couple of testimonials and I would give you those customers numbers http://www.portlandhousepainting.com/testimonials.htm
You should do your homework when hiring a contractor. Angies list can be one valuable source of information. You can find some of the same contractors via other sources like Craig's List. I advertise on both. But on Craig's list you will also find large numbers of completely illegal contractors that run the gambit from hard working guys with no license that will do a good job but if they get hurt can sue you for their injury to people that are outright criminals.
When I hire someone my first source is word of mouth, especially since I'm in the construction industry. My next source is Angies List. It's far superior to any other internet source.
Tis Pity She's A Whore...
Name of 18th century play (not Angie).
AngiesList bugs people because it is both deceptive and hypocritical. Deceptive in that the people who pay $60/year to access a list of supposedly "recommended" contractors do not realize that many of the contractors pay to be listed, and to have their "bad" reviews demoted or removed, and "good" reviews emphasized. Furthermore, an unknown percentage of the reviews are completely fake--"good" reviews written and posted by the companies themselves. From the consumer point of view, It's not what it looks like, and it is not unbiased information. or pro-consumer. People are paying to see what is paid advertising.
The hypocrisy is that they promote themselve as being some kind of consumer protection business. Yet their main source of income is from the businesses whose "reviews" they list on their website. This is not "Consumer Reports". Surely this flim-flam can't go for ever...
Angies List Myths
You cannot pay for placement on Angies List
You cannot have bad reviews removed
If companies post good reviews of themselves it's a tiny percentage of the list
No Information is unbiased. Angie's List provides more unbiased information than any service that's been mentioned here.
Give it a try. You will find the information useful and remarkably less biased then other online sources or traditions sources like the yellow pages.
What shocks me the most......
What shocks me the most is that I just spent an hour of my life reading all of these posts. I personally would never hire anyone to do work on my home or any of my posessions, that was referred to me by Angie's list, the BBB or any other "listing" service. It's not that difficult to find a good business on your own. It could become a bit time consuming, but it's worth the satisfaction of a well done job at the end.
First seek out friends and neighbors who have recently had similair work performed. Get several "first hand experiences" and their opinions. When driving, keep an eye out for similair work being done. ( This also usually assures the business is local and does a lot of work in your area which to me, is one of the most important criteria. )
Second, call these businesses and several others from your phone book to get a clear idea of the cost and work involved. Believe it or not, but usually the first several listings and the one's with large and even colored ads will be the best. Why? Because that tells me they invest to get my business. Stay away from neighborhood advertisement flyers.
Third, use your common sense. Meet with them, find out how long they have been in business, try to view some of their work "on site" where it is in progress. ALWAYS look for the negatives of any business, not the positives. And get everything in writing including cost quotes. Be completely comfortable about doing business with them. If it sounds too good to be true, always assume it is not good. NEVER pay more than half up front for any work! Only after work is completed and inspected. If they won't do this, forget them and move on. And last, try to avoid salesmen, and never let them get you on that "we're friends" level. Their only job is to sell you their sevice.
If you can't do these simply things, then no matter what list or whoever you deal with, your most likely going to pay premium prices for elementary services. There, I just save you a lot of time and money. I'd like a refund on my hour of time please. All smiles, have a great day and good luck!
What shocks ME the most...
Is that you actually spent an hour reading all of them. (-: As for me, I Googled Angie's List, saw one search result saying "Angie's List Sucks!"
I HAD to look. But I sure sure stopped reading responses when they became silly. I don't know from sucks but I DO know this: when it comes to Angie's List, I want to shout hallelujah sister! (-:
A few years ago I found a landscape contractor in the Yellow Pages to replace root-clogged drainpipes. It was the ugliest business transaction I have ever been involved in. I finally said "just go away." A short while later I received an offer for one year's free subscription to Angie's list. I couldn't resist the offer then and I have NO regrets now. Zero.
Through Angie's list I found a tile and marble installer. It was a small company consisting of only two brothers but their work was so cheap and so extraordinary, I added $200 to the bill and immediately hired them for a major tile restoration job. I never would have found them WITHOUT Angie's list. By the by, they'd never heard of Angie's List before I mentioned it. A pleased customer seems to have later joined AL and gave them high marks.
On the other hand, I looked up on Angie's list the landscape contractor I had a bad experience with. There were two entries, both of them D's, and each had essentially the same experience I did. I gave the sucker does a "sucker" actually "suck"?) an F with an exclamation mark!
Bottom line, Bill? Don't blow off AL because of what you read on this site (in fact, where ARE we?). Think of AL as an EXTREMELY extended group of "friends and neighbors" making suggestions.
I 've got to get back to my original task when I first sat down, looking for a plumber on Angie's list. (-:
Clearly Flawed
I just got off the phone with the Angie’s List office. I was inquiring about the “trial membership” that the Angie’s List website mentions.
I had to point the phone rep to the requisite place on the Angie’s List website that talked about trial memberships. Clearly this ‘trial’ was not in the cards, and outside of what the phone rep was interested in talking about. His focus was sales. And that’s it. He parroted a few lines about the value of the service, and then wanted to sell. I told him I might buy the service online, he tried to get me to buy on the phone. He didn’t want me to get off the phone without a sale. As a last sales resort, he told me he could discount an annual membership if I bought from him on the phone (but not a monthly membership).
Generally, hard sale tactics should make one suspicious.
From reading this website, clearly the Angie’s List model is flawed. Consumers are not generally made aware that contractors listed at the top pay for that privilege. Contractors are vulnerable to malicious consumers or competitors.
The defense of these limitations is pretty weak. The “not everybody is dishonest” defense is really kind of pathetic. Similar arguments could be made for spending no money in stores to prevent shoplifting. The “eventually the abusers will get caught” seems pretty weak too. Can anybody show those who have gotten caught. I have a suspicion that anybody could test the system and find that very few actually get caught.
I did use a friend’s login to access Angie’s List. I reviewed a certain type of business in my area where I have great knowledge. While Angie’s List did have some of the better companies at the top of the list, they had a few downright bad apples too. This alone is “proof” to me that the system is imperfect.
That employees from Angie’s List posted in this forum anonymously pretty much seals the deal on the corporate ethics of Angie’s List. It this were not true, I would guess that Angie’s List would refute it – legally if need be. The act of poorly written anonymous rebuttals from corporate puts the corporate ethics and character of Angie’s List on par with MLMs and ponzi schemes.
All that stated, I can actually see where Angie’s List still could be a good indicator to find a business to do a job. In a world where referrals from neighbors and checking BBB and other sources is pretty imperfect too… the flawed and hypocritical Angie’s List still has value.
But the potential value of a business indicator is not enough to make me “dance with the devil” as stated above and pay for this service.
Best wishes to somebody who can develop a better application of the stated model.
Question from a contractor
What prompted me to this site is all of a sudden I got an e-mail from Angie's List stating I'd had a comment from a customer about my company. I hadn't heard of Angie's List, and don't use referral services..my work is local word of mouth. I am a general contractor. So I googled Angie's List and saw this. I've been reading the posts all weekend.
I went in and had to register to see the ratings and comments. I wasn't overly surprised to see what customer it was. They gave me a B rating, gave some good comments but had a condescending tone, but said they would not use me again, which is damaging, in my opinion.
The interesting thing is, 99% of my customers have been very happy with my work and have recommended me to their friends, family and co-workers. None have ever used Angie's List, or SMagic, etc. They are NOT going to subscribe to Angie's List to either find a contractor, or even to give me good comments; I would never ask that of them. I would NEVER subscribe myself, and write my own comments.
The client in question was extremely difficult from the start, and in hindsight, I should have turned down the project, but needed to keep my guys busy. He vetted me prior to the project: Saw a renovation project I had completed, contacted three references (one told me he grilled them with about 50 questions) and we spoke about the project in detail, several times, ahead of time. I kept this in mind as the project went along. I insisted on frequent communication from this client so we would be on the same page at all times. We e-mailed (his preferred communication mode) almost daily, and any/all concerns were taken care of and dealt with. (However one of his main complaints was I didn't communicate enough about my plans for the project with him???) Did it go smooth the whole time? No, of course not; there's always snags here and there and some subcontractor issues that didn't make me happy either (and I won't use again), but they were corrected. There was a walkthrough/list I had him complete when we were almost done; so any and all things that bugged him, he didn't like, wanted changed, things we still had to complete due to backordered materials, etc would be dealt with. These things were done and he said he was happy.
At the end, when it was time for final payment I asked him to meet me for a final walkthrough/list to go over everything-anything he wasn't satisfied with. He turned it down-just wanted to mail final payment and be done. We understand remodeling isn't always a fun thing for the homeowner to go through and they want the project to be done. We did finish on schedule/budget with a couple backordered specialty items waiting to arrive; we would come back and install when they arrived.
So now this customer decides to post a somewhat negative post on the Internet instead of dealing with me directly. This is what irritates me. The question is-do I respond? How do I respond? If I don't, does my rating go down? I'm not going to trash this client in return, but I have a whole other perspective on this client/project. If any contractor called me and asked if they should work for this client, I would say "NO! Run as fast as you can." These clients are, in all honesty, the type that are never happy with anything and never will be.
I take great pride in my work, want only happy, satisfied clients, and will work to earn business and referrals. But this just an indication that it's only the unhappy ones that will post; the happy ones generally don't.
Rebuttal System on Workpost.com
This story is precisely why we have built it in a rebuttal system on Workpost.com, a free site that helps connect service providers and clientele. There are two sides to every story and when soliciting honest assessments of completed work, it's only fair that we allow the contractor to present their perspective. Additionally, the way for contractors to rank higher on Workpost is to get lots of reviews from customers, thus increasing the rehire index which is a percentage of reviewers who would hire the contractor again. Check out www.workpost.com and please provide us with any feedback you have that will help us to continue improving our site!
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Angies List - Faulty Program [DO NOT USE!!!]
My company is a kitchen and bath remodeling contractor. When I was first exposed to Angies List, I was impressed. I liked the idea that consumers could rate companies like mine. Since we have a great track record of completing jobs on time and on budget, I was thrilled when one of our customers posted a review of our company on Angies List. He rated us "A" in all categories and had some glowing comments. I soon got a call from a salesperson from Angies List offering enhanced placement on the local Angies List web site, and we had the chance to include some company information and a coupon in the posting. We agreed to a one year program at $167 per month. The first problem surfaced shortly after when we never received the "Comment Cards" that were promised. I had to call / email our sales rep 4 times over a 2-1/2 month period before we received the Comment Cards. We mailed or hand delivered the Comment Cards to a dozen of our recent customers. I believe that all were filled out and returned to Angies List. What happened? Nothing! Angies List doesn't post the comments from the Comment Cards on their site. You have to be an Angies List member and send the Comment Card information to them over the web for it to be included on the web. Yes, I understand that some companies might fill out the Comment Cards with glowing comments and send in a bunch of them. But we played it straight and had our customers fill out the information and mail them in (we did provided stamped addressed envelopes for their convenience). Of course it would be easy for companies to send in false information by having friends and relatives sign up for one month and send in positive reports. We paid for 5 months on Angies List and never received one call. So the money was a total waste. You are better off reimbursing customers for the one month subscription to Angies List (~$15.00, I believe) and encouraging them to send in the information via the Angies List web site. Through all of my dealings with Angies List, I found the same thing that you see in numerous other posts here re: Angies List. For a company that portrays itself as a dream come true for consumers, its a nightmare for companies. The people at Angies List were often rude and unprofessional. Our rep, Kevin, is a complete jerk. I wouldn't recommend that any other companies invest their marketing dollars with Angies List.
There is a better way
Sorry for the self-promotion, you can be your own judge. But there has been always a question on how they can stop people from "recommending themselves" on Angie's list. I personally know of a painter that landed a very nice contract after having a friend recommend them on the list.
MyShopPass.com can work by creating networks that family friends and neighbors build..list of businesses they trust or do not trust. This is free and we are not supported by paying businesses.
It may not suck, but it sure is a ripoff IMHO
I used to be a member, but $5/mo is too much for something that I may want to refer to maybe once or twice a year.
It also seems too much for since all their reviews are user generated. I have not used ServiceMagic, but maybe that is where I am headed next. Also, some contractors that were rated high on Angies List turned out to be too busy to come over even for an estimate.
So, it maybe good for those who need some contractor or someone every other week, but not for me..
Angie's List refused to remove a PROVEN fraudulent report for me
On my blog I've been slapping it to Angie's List for quite a while now. Today I got fed up with the complete complacency of the representative and the fake customer, and I've finally resorted to posting actual E-mails directly to my blog that show the level of incompetence one must deal with at Angie's List. In summary, I am NOT a paying contractor, I REFUSED their "Super Service Award" when offered today because of the sneaky clauses in the contract (FOR A SO-CALLED AWARD?!) it's click-wrapped in, and I have a total of three reviews on Angie's List: two "A" reviews from wonderful previous long-time customers that found me via Craigslist a long time ago, and one big fat "F" from someone I've never heard of or from. I disputed the review with Angie's List because it was clearly not posted to the correct company or otherwise incorrect. A woman named Brandy Auditore who is/was listed in my "CompanyConnect" profile on the left as my "Sales Rep" was the one I contacted and the one who sent a "reconfirmation message" to this non-customer.
The non-customer's response, summarized in one sentence: "Yeah, I spoke to someone there, and they said they were moving to [a major city 50+ miles away from all of my current and prior addresses] and I don't have my notes from the call and I don't remember any details."
Brandy Auditore the Angie's List Sales Rep's response: "Since the customer confirmed it, the report will remain."
Someone please, for the love of all that is holy and pure, explain to me how "I don't remember anything, have nothing written down, and the one detail I did spit out was completely off the mark" works as a confirmation that the customer's report surely is correct.
Angie's List is a money funnel, plain and simple, and if you don't pay into the system, you don't get very much regard from their sales weasels when it's time to review a bad report. My company now has a non-negotiable policy where we immediately refuse services to anyone who may call referencing Angie's List as their referral source. There is such a thing as a bad customer, and based on our contact with other non-reporting individuals from Angie's List referrals and this malicious non-customer who refuses to retract her fraudulent report, Angie's List is NOT a good source for high-quality, long-term customers; the signal-to-noise ratio seems far too high, and it's left a very sour taste in our mouths.
The full exchange is on my business owner blog at the following URL if you want to read the exact text: http://nctritech.wordpress.com/2009/03/14/angies-list-sucks-brandy-auditores-letter/
This is clearly a problem
This is clearly a problem with most reviews left in different websites. This is why MyShopPass.com is a better choice as it actually allows "comments" on reviews..but better then that it allows both businesses and consumers to connect and build networks with others that want to connect too. MyShopPass has no special interest in "just businesses" But we do have a paid side for businesses that will allow them to build a network of customers that will spread and spread...they do not nbeed to use the paid service, it just comes with some features not available to all, such as mass email to those in your network...put your business on ShopPass.com and you'll have a complete listing service that too connects to others MyShopPass.com account.
If you need any help, feel free to signup at MyShopPass.com and use the PM system that's in place or the contact us area of ShopPass.com
I Hope you do find some resolve and a solution. If enough people keep bringing this up, Angie's list will be forced to make changes in their policy.
Your spam is also a problem
One shill for MyFatAss is OK--two is not. Take your self-serving comments elsewhere.
You're full of beans!
I've used Angie's List since it came out. We've had 100% reliable and repeatable business with every one of the vendors from this list with whom we've done business. With all the fly-by-night charlatans out there, it's nice to get reliable work done by people who care what consumers think of their work.
So can you be a bit more specific?
It's amazing that these Angieslist employees keep posting generic rave reviews without ever being specific about "every one" of the vendors this person says she has used. Was it a roofer, a plumber, a dog walker? Comments that have absolutely no facts or evidence attached are just lame, and come straight from Angieslist's incredibly amateur PR department. Notice they never address the numerous and very specific complaints about Angieslist
greggles is alright by me
Thanks for standing up for everyone with a bit of common sense. But, man, you've had to deal with some real losers over the last few years. I hope I never have to meet that Jenny character -- she's the most boring thing I have ever read. Oh, and Angie's is a scam.
greggles is alright by me
Thanks for standing up for everyone with a bit of common sense. But, man, you've had to deal with some real losers over the last few years. I hope I never have to meet that Jenny character -- she's the most boring thing I have ever read. Oh, and Angie's is a scam.
greggles is alright by me
Thanks for standing up for everyone with a bit of common sense. But, man, you've had to deal with some real losers over the last few years. I hope I never have to meet that Jenny character -- she's the most boring thing I have ever read. Oh, and Angie's is a scam.
Bad Tampa Roof Cleaning Contractor
I wonder if they found THIS Tampa Roof Cleaning Contractor on Angies List, LOL
Worker severely burned in chemical explosion
By Times Staff Writer
Published January 17, 2004
TAMPA - A container with an acid residue exploded Friday morning in New Tampa, severely burning a 36-year-old man.
Investigators say Kenneth Toledo, a Tampa man who owns a pressure washing business, poured chlorine and water into the container, which had previously been used to apply an acid wash. The container had not been properly rinsed, and the resulting chemical reaction caused the explosion, officials said.
The container exploded as Toledo scaled a ladder to clean the roof of a Hunter's Green home in the 17800 block of Osprey Point Place, pelting Toledo with chemicals and shrapnel. He was airlifted to Tampa General Hospital. His condition was unknown Friday.
The explosion also blew a 2-foot-wide hole in the roof. Tile was scattered about the driveway.
I agree....Angie's List is a joke
When it first came to our area, I thought it was a great idea. After the List has been around for a few years, there are MAJOR flaws with it!
First, I love how Angie's list tells their subscribers that they are unbiased and yet, they allow companies to purchase advertisements that come off as Angie's List promoted companies. I have seen companies with a D rating get promoted just by paying Angie's List to do so.
Second, there is hardly ANY verification of facts on behalf of the staff at Angie's List. If a SUBSCRIBER writes something, it MUST be true. I have challenged this to no avail even with the facts being on my side.
Third, Angie's List can remove your response to any comment at any time whenever they want. And they do it all of the time. I had to revise an answer 3 times before they'd post it only to have it removed a few months later.
Also, they no longer give a time limitation on reporting. Had you had a bad experience with a company 20 years ago, the staff at A.L allow it to remain on your record permanently whereas any fellow subscriber may take it as a current issue.
Angie's List is a big waste of money. A consumer can get reliable information from their local BBB....you can't say the same for A.L. To this I say that anyone interested in reading fiction such as the BS placed on Angie's List could go to their local library and read it for free.
angie's List
Dude / Dudet's.
Ask ya damn neighbor who they used and was the service good. "HEY DAWG, YOU GET YO SHIZ FIXXED? YOU AINT GET RIPPED OFF?" Save your five dollars. Unless you live in the desert and have no life/ friends. I hope this hillbilly grammer is correct. dumbasses.
Ha!
Folks, you all have WAY too much free time on your hands. I was exhausted reading the posts on this site. Geez. You could save a lot of time and money using your energy to check out the references of contractors yourself.
In any event, after reading just part of this, I realized I couldn't possibly pay a monthly fee for a service that accepts revenue from the very entities it is supposedly reviewing. At least Consumer Reports has a 'no advertising' policy. I'm not sure how Angie's List got so popular in the first place.
Got a call from Angie's List's COO
I got a call from the COO of AL today, but missed it because I was on a motorcycle at the time. I'll probably be talking directly to him tomorrow; we'll see what he's willing to do. I'm also going to take the opportunity, if he'll let me, to explain to him the issues raised on this site. It seems that no one's ever taken the time to tell Angie's List why posts like this exist; it's not filtering up that high. I've got the COO's phone number (which I will NOT give out) and I'll be giving him the most valuable B2B input he'll ever receive. I hope that he's willing to listen to it.
Some problems with Angies, but it's far better than any other
Yes, there are problems and potential problems with Angies.
But anyone that wonders whether it is worth it, get a guest account and login. It has a ton of valuable info on contractors that you can find no where else.
I'm a painting contractor in Portland, OR. If you want info on painters in Portland I know of no place were you can find the wealth of factual information you can on Angies list.
No offence, but the alternatives people are trying to sell on this site are not useful at this point. People come here to trash angies and promote there own services. From what I've seen none of these services are as useful, informative or fraud resistant as Angies.
Some of the other online services, like merchantcircle, are just so filled with fraud that they are useless. Any site where someone can post annonomous ratings and comments is going to be filled with crap. That is why Angies has great information, they make you pay before you can post a comment.
When people can comment for free it turns out to be a good conversation, like this one, but it also get filled with self promotion and unedited crap.
Angies is the best source to find Portland, Oregon house painters. Other contractors, other areas, I don't know. But I know my market and I know if you want to know real info from real customers you'll find more real info with Angies than anything else I've seen.
Angies List, The BBB and ServiceMagic
I'm a building contractor. We are members of the BBB because if you are not, the public believes that you are not a company how cares or worse. Many consumers also think that the BBB is some kind of Government or regulating business entity. They are not. They are a privately owner company that solicites businesses for membership and charges them an annual fee. The information that they collect about the business is not verified, so you can say what you want, as long as you have been in business two years. If their is and issue or a dispute, they are the middleman, just sending communucations between you and the company you have issue with. It's all about memberships!
Angies List is not much different except that they chrage the customer not the contractor for their basic service. The contractor can pay for a premium service listing also. Their is no verification of the information supplied by the contractor. Through them, he could tell you he has been in business for 15 years and has 13 employees - in reality he has one employee and subs out all his work and has only started in business two years ago.
Service Magic seeks contractors and intices them with bonified, qualified leads that they will sell to them. We thought that this was a great idea and participated in their program for over a year. Then it became clear to us that this same "lead" had also been sold to 5 or 6 of our competitors and many of these prospective customers had already contacted us anyway. So why should we pay Service Magic? The also state that they have checked out the contractors; "Pre-screened". They only verify that you are a valid business with an address and phone number, etc.
Recommendation: Contact contractors and companiies that have been in business a long time. ALWAYS ask for at least 3 referrals that you can talk to or go see. This is the best way to collect the information necessary without becoming part of a marketing organizations scheme to fleece you for misguided information. It is about money. Theirs...Not yours.
Angie's List chiming in
Thanks, everyone, for a spirited discussion about the merits of Angie's List. I'm Cheryl Reed, from Angie's List, and I wanted to chime in.
First, I want to apologize to everyone for the unauthorized postings from people here at Angie's List, which quite rightly incited Greg's ire. We don't allow "rogue" posts -- even those that may be well intentioned. We've put a greater emphasis on explaining this policy to our staff to be sure everyone knows that if a staff member is blogging or commenting on blog posts about the company, the affiliation must be clearly stated.
Angie’s List appreciates honest discourse on sites like this because the feedback helps us take a hard look at the way we explain our policies. We never want any confusion surrounding stuff like the removal of negative reviews or whether companies can advertise. First, there are only three instances we would ever remove a review on Angieslist.com and we’d never do so without first alerting the member who submitted it:
Regarding companies that advertise: yes, companies that maintain an overall grade of A or B are allowed to advertise by offering a coupon on our website, through the call center or in our monthly magazine. Only companies that maintain these high grades (as rated by our members) are allowed this opportunity, and if their grade ever falls below a B, the opportunity is revoked.
We’ve improved our FAQs on these and other topics. I encourage anyone with questions to take a look, or contact me directly if something still isn’t clear. Our FAQ page can be found at http://www.angieslist.com/AngiesList/Visitor/Faq.aspx or you can reach me directly at cherylr@angieslist.com or 317-396-9134.
Thanks.
great point to end discussion (for now)
And I think that's a great point to end this discussion for a little while. It's been some time since a commenter raised a new idea and I'm currently quite weary of the discussion.
If you have something to say on the topic, post it on your own blog and reference this article. I'll periodically post a wrapup of the best articles. If you need a blog...not much I can do for you ;)
Perhaps in the future if there is something new to discuss we can open up discussion again.
angieslist Local directory
I agree with you on almust evrything, but a c a good point on angieslist directory.
I would say the free listing is some thing good for small business people like me!
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My reason for not using angie's list
I don't write blogs (and don't usually care to read them), but I stumbled upon this while trying to research if I should pay for a membership on Angie's list. Although I have to admit I had pretty much settled on that I would not use it before coming here, I thought maybe something written herein would change my mind. It didn't.
Here's why: their entire business model is completely screwed up. I bought a house in the Bay Area in 2005 and am now getting ready to do some remodeling (most of it I'll do myself, but some parts like deleting a window I'd feel better about a contractor doing). I just can't see the point of paying monthly for a service that I might use 2 or 3 times (at most) a year.
It seems like if someone is paying every single month for this service then they either bought something that needs a lot of work over a long period of time. The monthly business model seems force-fitted to me.
Worse, I checked the price in a few places I used to live: Vincennes, IN (no presence).. Bloomington, IN ($1.30).. Hayward, CA ($6.95). I'm sorry, but that feels like I'm getting gouged because of where I live and its, frankly, somewhat insulting!
Regards,
Greg
AngiesList.com - misleading tactics
They get you to give them your email address and at that time they force you to give them "permission" to send you lots of emails - THEN, after you do that, they lay it on you that you have to give them money.
They're a bunch of criminal rip-offs and if they start sending me lots of emails I'll send them 100 times that right back at them.
Angies List
Sounds like a pretty good scam to me.
Tell me your thoughts on my Website
Lots of great comments on Greg's review of Angie's List. I own a competing website, www.consumerconnection.com, that I am bootstrapping to help consumers share their reviews of many types of businesses FOR FREE! Greg is right, starting this type of website is very hard. I am doing this by myself so I would love to get feedback from you and your readers.
Thanks for any advice you can provide.
SCAMMITY SCAM SCAM!!!!
Angies List seems to be just another online scam...the old "HOW TO MAKE A MILLION" (everyone send me a buck and I'll tell you how I made a million)! Don't Use It!!! It is not reliable...
great but don't post anything negative about a contractor
Angie says your privacy as a consumer is guaranteed, unless of course you write anything negative about one of their service providers. I had a negative experience with a contractor and wrote about it. Angie sent my review to the contractor, along with my NAME and EMAIL and then the contractor wrote something completely horrible about me in the pulbic comments section. I called Angie's list and they told me they send all negative reviews to the contractor to "protect the reputations of their service providers." So much for protecting my personal information. I was mortified and cancelled immediately and demanded my money back.
Angie's List notifies contractors re: reports
Cheryl from Angie's List here. Angie's List sends a notice to service professionals who are reviewed on the List the first time they're reporte