Why Angies List Sucks
Note: "sucks" is a pretty strong and immature word, but it's the word to use online when you think someone has a bad idea. So, if that's off-putting, get over it. Or start a "sucks sucks" site.
Recently I was asked what I thought of Angie's List. Frankly, I had no idea. I was told it was a pretty neat list that has good ratings of local retailers. The idea is that you are looking for advice on a company to hire for a service (e.g. car repair) so you check Angie's List and see the advice and ideas of other users who have used the site. It's basically like Better Business Bureau, City Search, or one of thousands of other local directories. Many of these directories are broken: biased reviews, paid inclusion, incomplete information, etc. This is where Angie's List claims to be different. They use "only" consumer generated content and require a "small fee" to keep the reviews unbiased.
Here's a bit on the policy:
Consumer support means it's honest: Companies don't pay to be on Angie's List. Only Angie's List members report on the companies they've hired. View the list of services rated in your area. Additionally, members make sure the ratings are clean and honest by supporting Angie's List. They pay a MEMBERSHIP FEE because we work for them (not the contractors) to keep the list growing with the most accurate information about the companies in their area.
Why This Angies List Policy is Dumb
Let's say that I'm a consumer. If Angie's list charges me $5/month I have to get a lot of value out of the list for it to be worth that membership fee. They have millions of customers though, so apparently it's compelling to some folks. Let's say that I'm the business owner, though. If I can create a fake email account and use my home address (or my neighbors address) so that Angie's List doesn't know who I am, then $5/month is a pittance for being able to enter a review of my own business.
So, their whole "we charge a small fee to keep the reviews honest" thing doesn't work for the stated policy, but it sure does help them bring in revenue without worrying about advertising.
Paid Position/Advertising on Angie's List?
Here's the worst part - after your company gets added they contact you and say something like "your company has been added and reviewed. If you'd like you have an enhanced listing you can pay us for that."
So the whole "we are acting in our members best interests" thing is bullshit! They have one interest in mind: their own.
The Review Problem is Real
The thing is - it's really hard to run a review site. Really hard. Getting valuable metrics is difficult. How does each user know if they should be trusting the other users of the site. Angie's List's paid membership program clearly doesn't make sense (though it may work than other current options). So, what's the future? Fortunately, it's the online corollary to the system you already use in real life: you ask your friends and colleagues via social bookmarking that helps guide you to the best local plumber. This is the clear way to solve the problem in the future.
Sorry, Angie's List. You could implement these features in your site, but don't pretend that the $5 is for anything other than your own pockets.
Edit: For an update and details as far as why you have to login to write comments see www.angieslist.com update post
Comments
Angie's List
Yes, your use of the word "sucks" in realtion to Angie's List is STRONG and full of your own apparent biases! Although a service business could circumvent Angie's List check and balances on occassion it would ultimately be short lived if they weren't providing top notch service in the long process. Why? Because any other member that used that service would certainly post their own review of their own particular experience. In addition, Angie's List only allows one review per service customer per every six months and you must be a current paid subscriber (and not just the $5.00 a month as you allude to). Personally, my husband and myself have used it on the recommendations of friends and have had nothing but great experiences with it. It's ironic that you should condemn Angie's List for being a for profit organization. Might I ask what line of business you are in? Is your company in business to make a profit? Go Figure! Nevertheless, Angie's List fills a real void in selecting a service company and we look forward to their continued success and profitability!
Cheers!
Jenny Gray
some responses
Hi,
Allow me to respond.
It's the standard word for this kind of a review, so it is you who needs to get over it. It's not a bias, it's a standard. Welcome to the interweb.
Then they should state those details in their policy (I didn't find those details and I spent a fair amount of time tryint to review the site).
That's great that you've had good experiences with the site. My point is not so much that the site gives bad recommendations, but that their policy is not logically sound and can easily be gamed. Once a service becomes big enough and popular enough, those with a business interest will game it even if the policies worked fine when the service was smaller (see DMOZ and Wikipedia for example).
I don't condemn them for being for-profit. I condemn them for providing an illogical reason for the $5 fee while ignoring a perfectly logical one. If they had said "we charge this small fee to run our service and reduce biased reviews" then I'd have no problem with the explanation (except that it doesn't work as well as a system like lijit).
Absolutely they do and I hope that they can improve their model (and their honesty).
Angie's List and why it sucks.
I happen to agree but for a very different reason. I can't access it. Not contact, Tips, Faqs or any other part of the web site can I view which leads me to conclude it was written for PC users only. I use Mac
Additionally I live in SW Missouri which is an easy 200 miles from the only Missouri towns on Angie's List pull down menu: St Louis and Kansas City. When I enter my area code the town that pops up is a farming community of approximately 250 persons that is located between our two County seats - a total of 100,000 persons or more - and 90 miles from the largest city in SW Missouri, population 300,000 and growing.
Unless I am driving to KC to gamble, or St. Louis to purchase skin care products Angie's List is of ZERO use to me. I ablsolutley guarantee the next time I need home repar I will not hire a conatractors in either of the cities in Angiels List menu, but I will ask my neighbors for the name of a LOCAL contractor. .
Pj
..
Angie's list is heavenly
Thanks for the insight on useless information. I'm a contractor on Angie's list and pay them nothing. I don't even see my profile but keep receiving gracious customers based on my original report write up. When I get a lead from a homeowner it's like i'm they're brothers friend whom they trust and have no problem hiring me. When I do get hired I don't skip a beat since I can get written up. In fact I'm on my best behavior with a fair price and even pet they're animals. The only complaint which i can say they "SUCK" is that I don't recieve as many leads as they're competitor Servicemagic. 20% of my business comes from service magic although 1/2 of the leads are bogus or hard to get to since they are given to 3 other contractors. I do have bad comments made about me on service magic which have since been lost in the amount of good comments but you can't help what trashy people will say about you just because they can and some uneducated people who don't ask questions about your service will just assume they're screwed over and write a bad review. I pay service magic about $600 per year and recieve about $3,000 worth of work not to mention referrals, so it's worth it to me. I get a lead from Angie's list every 6 months which turns into a job which is only $650 worth of work. As far as what others have to say from a customer standpoint, $5 is not much to spend for a 3rd party piece of mind you can get from an unbiased source. They do ask us to advertise but there's no link between good reports and advertisement. Actually good reviews for contractors typically show that they're too busy to get to you since they're in high demand which I've seen from ordering contractors myself on my home.
AngiesList and Mac
Don't blame the Mac. I'm 100% Mac and have no problems at all on Mac 10.4 with my iMac, my old Pismo Laptop, and my older 933 PowerPC G4. Your problem is probably not related to the Mac.
Why Angie's List doesn't "suck"
I can guarantee you that every review is processed by a real live person reviewing each claim. They are tireless in their search to weed out companies and reviews that are on the List falsely. Do some research.
And how long have you worked
And how long have you worked for Angie's List?
I AGREE~~ It SUCKS!!
I was shocked at the cost of being a customer on their site? like they don't have advertising revenue? And it won't allow me to start looking for comments on building contractors near my own small hometown because I'm in DC. Oh, and BTW, it's a lot more than $5 a month, it seems like they wanted almost $7. doesn't seem like much until you multiply that by 12. But, they have other sign-up fees you can agree to for the long term. It isn't a huge deal for me, my grandfather was and my father is a contractor, so I'll already be hooked up when my husband and I each retire from the military and finally settle down where my family lives. I just wanted to get a jump on the process and start researching who I was going to hire to take care of different aspects of building our permanent home. The family will be doing most of it, but, I want some extra hands to take care of some of the fine detail work. Wish me luck!!!!
Angie's list DUBIOUS
Maybe its fine if you live in New York or some place where its been running for a long time. I live in West palm Beach and its of marginal value. They have very few listings. Nothing for upholsterers, nothing for furniture repair, almost nothing (they added names on their own) for window replacement. So unless you live in a place where they have a lot of listings, don't bother.
Angie's List
1st Question - Do you own a home?
2nd Question - Have you ever bought a home in a new community? In other words, have you ever moved across the country to a new place where you have no idea who might provide the best service in a particular category?
Having bought homes numerous times in new places, Angie's List is at least a starting point. It paid for itself about 10 times over when we had to replace our furnace last October. We got bids from Angie's lists top 3 Heating/Cooling repair and installation listings. The lowest bidder happened to also be #1 out of about 30 listings on the List. The Company was outstanding, fixed an existing circulation problem the other 2 had missed, and still came in $600 under the next lowest bid.
If you don't own a home or you own one in a community where you've lived for a long period of time, you don't need this service. But for those of us new to a community with no solid history or background on home repair type businesses which are notoriously the most unscrupulous, Angie's List is better then just blindfolding yourself and throwing a dart at the yellow pages which is what we would have been left to when we purchased our new furnace.
By the way - I'm a construction professional - so I have some knowledge of building systems - and even at that - going through the yellow pages for residential type services, making the calls, and asking the questions you need to ask to sort out the good and bad is incredibly time consuming. I'll pay Angie's List $60 bucks a year to narrow the list for me.
Your husband & you are stupid.
Why don't you use the BBB. It's free for customers and gives you complete history. Your a plant for Angies list or really stupid.
Stand by my Comments
Anyone who writes "Your husband and you..." should not be calling others stupid.
Regardless, I am in the midst of $150,000 home remodel and using a number of contractors found on Angie's list since my husband and I are still farily new to this area. Things are going remarkably well at about 30% through. For example, the Fireplace Contractor found on Angies List is done. They completed the removal of the old fire place and complete install of new with a larger flue up through 3 floors of the house, perfectly executed, clean, quick, done in 4 days.
I bid the remodeling project work to both Angie's List and non-Angie's List contractors. About 50% of the work is being done by Angie's List contractors. Most of the other 50% were referred by Angie's List contractors when I pre-bid interviewed them for the project. So at this point, once again, I feel that I've gotten my money's worth for the next 3 years which is my subscription level.
No, I am not an Angie's List employee. I am architect who works for a Chicago Firm and travels from my home (not Chicago) to company sites across the country. I needed a database of potential "good" firms as a starting point for my project. I didn't have a network of "co-workers" in this community to gather data from. My husband's co-workers (he and they are all soooo "stupid" as Academicians at the top university in the country in their field) are not particularly verse on construction.
“Your husband and you
"Your husband and you ..." is grammatically correct. However, "your a plant" is not.
"Your husband and you..."
Sorry, not to be picky, but "Your husband and you..." is not correct gramatically. In this case the first person had it been used is the word "I". However, the writer did not refer to himself. He used only the second person (you) and the third person (your husband). The rule is this: When 2 or more personal pronouns/nouns in the singular number are connected by "and," the second person precedes the first and third, and the third person precedes the first. In this case, since there is no first person, the second person (you) precedes the third person (your husband).
For example:
You and I (second precedes first)
You and your husband (second precedes third)
You and your husband and I (second precedes third precedes first)
and the obvious
Your husband and I (third precedes first)
Sorry - - too much sentence diagramming in my past.... :-)
But you are correct - I wasn't paying attention to the spelling since the grammar issue had caught my attention....
Grow Up!
My God there are some condescending assholes visiting this site! Kicking around what is and what is not grammatically correct - please! Pathetic, really. If you were really that bright, you wouldn't need to point it out.
LOL
I agree with the smart woman (I'm a working class man) who corrected the person's grammar. In our society, you don't call someone stupid if you're less bright than the person you're challenging. Most of us 12-year educated folks can hide behind our limited knowledge of English, but to challenge someone on an open forum when grammatic aptitde is being questioned is pretty dumb, and funny too.
It is "you're" not "your"
It is "you're" not "your" really stupid.
Sevicemagic
I can not comment on Angie's List because I never belonged to Angie's List and I won't ever belong. I can comment on Servicemagic and no company sucks as much as Servicemagic. The are a false and fradulent advertising company and that is exactly what they are. They charge the incompetent contractors that they give leads to so that they can come out to your home and rip you off. I hired someone thru Sevicemagic and with all my complaints and even after they sent someone out to my home to inspect the bad work that the contractor did. Servicemagic's representative agreed to everything that I had stated all the work that was done was horrible. I had to hire someone else after losing $5,000.00 dollars on one of their contractors. After all that they are still advertising for the slime ball. They never even printed my review they only print the good ones. As long as the slime ball contractor keeps paying them to send him leads it really doesn't matter that I lost $5,000.00. I actually could of sued but it isn't easy. I had several contractors tell me even one of Servicemagic's representatives say that all the work had to be redone, but no one wants to be called to court and have to take time out from work and you need three written statements from three contractors. After 3 1/2 months of being tortured by this rotton contractor I really did not want anything else to do with him or the scum company Servicemagic. I do not know if you could mention the Contractor's company name but it is Ecuasolutions USA. The owner use to be in business with a different name but with Servicemagic backing him he will always get business whether he is any good or not, so he probably will not have to change his company name again.
angie's
so true. service magic is false info for anyone out there. your best bet is asking your neighbors and local fire department (who is more honest than a fire fighter?) for recommendations.
Another reason Angie’s
Another reason Angie's List sucks is that when you post a review, the person/company you are reviewing gets the report, AND YOUR FULL NAME. I don't know about you, but I live in a small town. I have an important negative review I wanted to leave on Angie's List, but didn't want the realtor in question to get my name since she is a family friend (not of mine). So, if all Angie's List wants is positive feedback, I guess that would work, but for honest, negative feedback, I feel you should be allowed to have your privacy protected.
You are soooooooooooooo
You are soooooooooooooo right ... YOU do need to get over it! AND yes you are more than immature, but you certainly have that right. I know the truth hurts YOU and no doubt you will have something to say about this too! Ahhhhhh YOU never answered any of the questions posed ... just running your mouth. Go figure!
Jenny Gray
what?
So, in the same sentence where you call me immature you use all caps and repeat the same letter a bunch. OMG, U R cleerly teh mo$t maTuR3!
Never answered any of what questions posed? You posted your comments. 7 Hours later you are amazed that I haven't responded. I respond a day later. Wow.
The clock is ticking - you have 7 hours to respond :)
You answered...
greggles, we're watching, and you did answer the questions, and did so in a credible, mature way. Keep up the good work.
First of all, I was positive
First of all, I was positive you are the type of personality that has to have the last word. I was correct that you had to respond ... even if it didn't make much sense to anyone but a select few. Beyond that it is further apparent you suffer from a severe reading disability. My time is more important than continuing to point out to you various issues. Again, you appear to have a severe reading disability. In addition, it's patently obvious you have your very own definitions when it comes to words like "standard, bias, logically" etc. My husband is a profiler and gets a kick out of your posts too. However, we both have better things to amuse ourselves with then your pitiful posts.
Jenny Gray
glad I provided some entertainment
Ok, so it's good to know that I provided some entertainment for you and your "profiler" husband. You also made the 7 hour cutoff which proves that you have less to do than I!
I like how you criticized me for not responding fast enough and now criticize me for being a person who "has to have the last word" in a discussion.
I'm not alone in my beliefs about this - my site was recently cited in discussion about angies list policies on wikipedia so it seems pretty clear that it's not just me living in my own world with my own definitions of standard, bias, and logically. Perhaps you are ONUnicorn and that's what got you so upset to begin with? Or perhaps you are one of the Angies List PR people who wrote the original wikipedia article?
It doesn't matter to me as long as an explanation of the flaws with angies list's policies stays available.
ad hominem attacks
Can't make an argument, so attack greggles. Pointless.
Why Angie's List sucks
It would be better if Angie's List rated only upon customer reviews, but they don't. They give their own ratings "based on a local expert." Unfortunately, I learned too late to ignore Angie's List ratings, and I am paying the price.
The "local expert" is an Angie's List employee ...
... doing Google searches. So, by the transitive property of math, anyone who does a Google search is a local expert. I'll keep my money, thank you.
THANK YOU FOR THIS WEB SITE
Im a small buiness owner and would have to say that Angie's List work ethics are a disgrace and are dishonest. AVOID DOING BUISNESS WITH ANGIE'S LIST. A Midwest Company
unsubstantiated reviews of angies list
Well, it doesn't serve anyone to just say things like their "work ethics are a disgrace and are dishonest". That's an unsubstantiated claim without a justification for it. Frankly, I'm contemplating removing your comment because I don't want this to become a thread for everyone with an ax to grind to defame Angies List. If you have something bad to say about them, do it with a little explanation and try to be impartial.
Let me be clear about this Angies List is a good service and provides quality reviews to many people. Their current business model has some holes in it, in my opinion, and I would like to either see improvements or the success of other rating systems.
So, I guess I'll leave the above comment here as a warning to others - if you post a terse review (positive or negative) of Angie's List without an unbiased argument for why you feel that way I will delete your comment.
18 MONTHS
Did you you that a consumer has up to 18 months to complain on a company? So this means that the consumer can sleep on it for 18 months and then one day (18 MONTHS LATER) thats 1 yaer and 6 months make a complaint do you really think this is good work ethics ?
statute of limitations on bad customer service
That's an interesting point - I'm not sure how long a the lag period should be. If it were up to me a customer would be able to review your company at any point.
I guess you can argue that 18 months later the company has probably changed and customer experiences are no longer valid but many companies stay the same more than they change. And really the age of the complaint/recommendation should just be included in the weighting of the review. So, if it were up to me recent reviews would matter more than reviews about an experience that has long passed.
Of course, if it were up to me the reviews would be based upon input from my friends/family (and their friends/family) rather than just making them reliant on random humans.
[note: in case it wasn't clear - both of the comments in this sub thread about their poor service from "Anonymous" are from the same email/IP which is probably the same person.]
DOES NOT MATTER
It does not matter what the issue is to Angie's List if it's within 18 months they will list it.In fact they will list anything a consumer wants to say about a company , they can make up a lie and Angie's List will list it. This is more then a interisting point this is a serious problem that Angies list needs to fix . They Should Learn From BBB .Infact I will be Fileing A comlaint With the BBB About Angie's List.
I have a story that would shock you about Angie's List.
I suspect Angie's List has a
I suspect Angie's List has a rapid response team to respond to criticism on the web. Everywhere you turn on the web that discusses it you find glowing reviews that sound like they were written by a marketing person and critism based on logic accompanied with mindless personal attacks on the critic.
I think "sucks" is a good description for the value of Angie's List even if all their reviews are legitimate, which I doubt they are. They claim to have 250 categories in 124 cities and receive 15,000 reviews a month according to referenced cited in their Wikipedia article. Doing the math, it will take on average about two months for Angie's List to get a single review in each single category within a city. If the category has 12 businesses listed, it will take two years to get a single review on each of them.
They claim to have a "grapevine" with the 500,000 members, (not "millions") and in all likelihood this includes those just checking it out with a free membership. Anyway with 15,000 reviews a month, that means that the average Angie's List member submits a report about once every three years. By the time they do collect enough reviews to mean anything, many if not most of the reviews will be outdated.
I don't think that sample size is anywhere near what it needs to be to make it any more reliable than tossing a dart on a list from the yellow pages. Personally, I think I'll get more value by spending my $50 on lottery tickets than an Angie's List subscription.
I do give them an "A" for self-promotion. They have picked up an amazing level of publicity, but I suspect advertising with the news media and their affiliated companies makes it a lot easier to get them to write good stories about you and turn a blind eye to your shortcomings. The rapid response team is pretty smart too, except it only works for a while.
Its sad when people make
Its sad when people make comments about topics they dont understand or even really know about. You people must dont do very good research. I use Angie's List and it has proven to be a wonderful service. You can save money and time by using this company. The $5 monthly subscription fee pays off if you use someone that offers a coupon anyways, plus I would much rather see what people have to say about a company then take a wild guess with the yellow pages. For a service company to have a nice ad in the yellow pages all they need is money, and believe me, the companies with the most money dont always do the best job. You must not be a homeowner.
Sounds like snakeoil to me
Looks like you are changing the subject, but I'll follow along
There are plenty of sources where you can get reviews of questionable reliability other than Angie's List. Yahoo, Yelp, Judy's Book, Amazon, Google (I think), InsiderPages Zipingo, many online yellow pages, someone's "preferred contractors" list, to name a few. Except on those sites, I don't have to pay anything to see them. If I couldn't get a recommendation from someone I trust, I personally would use one of Home Depot's guaranteed contractors rather than the yellow pages or Angie's List I know the contractors pay to be on that list, but at least I get a guarantee from Home Depot if things go bad and they do sometimes, but Home Depot does make good on its guarantee. I doubt Home Depot would keep problem contractors on the list very long if they kept having to payout when they screw up.
I think you are really naive if you think those coupons make it worth $50 a year. It reminds me of one of those people that thinks they get a good deal by buying something "on sale" or "half off the 'regular price' of $20" only to discover another place has the same item for $9 everyday. On a side note, Ebay is a pretty good source for measuring how good a deal is, but that just works for goods, not services.
The coupons don't make it worth it for several reasons. First, they are mostly repeating the same offers in other sources that you don't have to pay for. I'm a homeowner and I get tons of coupons and similar offers in my mailbox every day. Second, Angie's List lists service providers which typically give quotes for specific work. If you are using a coupon, they just won't be as flexible in their quote, thus your coupon is worthless, or least you have know way of knowing whether it actually saves you money or not. As you said, the point of Angie's List is to find reliable service providers, not necessarily the ones with the most money (the correlary to that is the ones that can afford to make the best offers). If you think it's worth it for the coupons, fine, but that's a tough sell, and Angie's List only brings that up when people point out the shortcomings of their main service.
I've logged on to Angie's List with a friend's account to checked it out (she tells me she's not renewing it). I saw about six contractors I'm was already familiar with. All had A's and B's, but three of those contractors absolutely "sucked" from my experience. I would never recommend them and know of several others in my neighborhood with similar problems with them. Needless to say, I would not purchase an Angie's List membership, (especially while my friend's membership still works). Maybe my experience with these contractors was unique, but it does tell me that a good rating on Angie's List probably doesn't mean much.
Are you part of the "Rapid Response Team"? Chad
Angie's list
Hi Everyone
I am in Saint Louis and I like Angie's list. We bought an older house and have had to do some major repairs. We haven't been in town long enough to have a network and know who is good and who isn't. It isn't perfect but it is a nice place to start. Some small businesses are clearly aware that they have a good reputation on Angie's list and get a lot of referrals from the list. I think that they are also aware that the work that is done will ultimately be rated on the list so there seems to be an incentive to continue to do good work. In Saint Louis there does seem to be a relatively robust database that is helpful in determining who should bid on work etc. If there is a better way I would be happy to save the $50/year. Seems similar to the Homeowners Club of America in a certain sense.
need your opinion
I own a home in the Twin Cities and am doing some upgrading. I have hired a few companies from flyers and the phone book and have had very poor service results. I have read and heard mixed reviews about Angies List and am considering joining, but do not know any one here that has used it and I don't know if it's worth the money. I recently searched the internet and found a free website that strictly qualifies all service companies before they can be listed on the site. It is a local company and just for our area in the Twin cities. It looks interesting and set up nice...and it's free. I would be interested in anyones opinion of this site and to see if you like it and would trust the criteria since you have viewed other sites like this to find good contractors. The website is www.theserviceguide.com Please let me know what your thoughts are on this free resource.
I agree with the anonymous
I agree with the anonymous poster on this one - it's a bit of a crap shoot and they are (like Angie's List) financially incented to drive your business to their businesses. Who knows if they are telling the truth about the quality of their review process.
Maybe you can sign up on Angie's List and see if theserviceguide.com is listed there ;) ?
The only plus I can see with
The only plus I can see with that site (theservice 4guide.com)is the fact that the service is free. Their "strict standards" don't seem all that strict to me, almost on par with saying "do you have a heartbeat?" They are telling you to just trust them, but their revenues come from the businesses.
They say they turn down more companies than they accept. If you believe that, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in. On the other hand, they could be a referral service created or financed by some of the businesses themselves to steer business their way, so they may turn down their competition. A lot of referral services work that way, unfortunately. I wouldn't expect much from them, but you never know I guess. Good luck.
It is sort of sad to read
It is sort of sad to read the previous two more skeptical comments about theserviceguide.com. In today's world where it is such a crapshoot, it is refreshing to see a company dedicated to trying to set things back on a straighter, more honest path. Not everyone in the world is out to get other people. This company doesn't seem to reflect anything but wanting to see things done right for the consumer, and they want to try and help. My recommendation would be to try the service and see for yourself. If it is free, you have nothing to lose. Remember, too, that you can always conduct your own "qualification" process. Their site even has information to help you do it yourself. See if you come up apples to apples. You probably have a better chance of things going right with theserviceguide.com than not.
I agree that it's better
I agree that it's better than nothing and I agree that you can always do the research for yourself. I think this is reasonable - to use Angie's list or theserviceguide.com as just another factor in the process of deciding which contractor is best.
But when you say that it's sort of sad that people are so skeptical, don't you think it's a bit ironic that you didn't leave your name and instead left the name as "Anonymous"? Talk about skeptical!
your opinion
Thanks for your opinion on www.theserviceguide.com I agree with you that it's nice that the service is free. Also, the trust factor is a question as it could be trusted only if the businesses are truely pre-qualified as they say. I did some homework and called a 4 of the companies on the list and they all said that they could not be listed until all qualifications where met including reference checks and proof of insurance...that's a good thing. I noticed that they do not have a way for consumers to give their feedback to the businesses and share it with other consumers. Do you think it would help this service gain further trust if they also allowed consumers to feedback on their individual service experience from the company they hired to do work for them? Then it would still be free,you would have good companies to choose from and it would also have a similar feature like an Angies list with the consumer gaining more information and trust with feedback available to share with other local consumers. What do you think? I'm planning on giving this service a try.
as I just wrote above,
as I just wrote above, services like theserviceguide.com can be a part of an overall picture of a company, but shouldn't (in my opinion) be the only part of it that you trust.
The only way to build real long-lasting trust in an online community is to use rating/ranking that is based upon the social network - not just anonymous reviews. If my mom or neighbor reviews a business I trust that more than some random person (who may be a shill for the company getting reviewed). That type of system where your online trust is based on your offline trust is the basis for the lijit social bookmarking and rating service and I think it will become a powerful force in areas like this over the new few years.
If theserviceguide.com used services like Lijit to build their rating/review network then they'd have something really powerful.
Give It A Try And See What Happens
You sound like you really want to try this service out. You should, but if you have any misgivings, go forth with caution and an open mind. A smart shopper does their own homework. If this service claims to qualify businesses pretty carefully, you will likely be in okay hands, but it wouldn't hurt to ask whichever contractors you hire for their credentials, as well. Do some of your own reference checking. If your experience IS positive, then you know you found a good contractor, plus you found an honest to goodness "for real" useful website you can use again in the future. It's worth giving it a try and see what happens. I've seen other sites similar to these. This one, for some reason, comes across professionally and with a nice, warmer local flavor. Personally, that appeals to me. I like that they are able to actually get to know the businesses they are representing. Too many of these sites don't really have any idea, really, who they are putting out there if they work from out of state. It is a hope and a prayer, that is, if they actually care. I get a sense the people behind theserviceguide actually do care. I think you will make out okay.
Objective? Or subjective
I have been in business for over 25 years. We have over 10,000 repeat customers who would rave about our service, we also probably have 100 past customers who we refused to do or wanted something for nothing who would be the type to get on Angies list and complain. It is a crap shoot! We go out of our way to please our customers and 99% of our customers are very happy with our service. Most people expect and demand good service or they would go somewhere else they WOULD not go on to a place like angies list and PAY to say that they received the service they expected in the first place!
thanks for your insights, ben
thanks for your insights, ben. I think that's exactly the kind of flaw that concerns me about these types of business models. They appeal to the angry minority, or the best friend of the business owner - both skewing the data from reality in their own ways.
Angie's List
I am a small business owner. In my opinion Angie's List is very good for the consumer and blatantly unfair to businesses. This may sound like sour grapes but my company is listed in 5 categories on Angie's List and we have an A+ rating in all categories and have been awarded with the Super Service Award in these categories for the last 4 years. Angie states that only 2% of the companies on the list receive this "honor".
Anyhow - the majority of the subscribers on the list are simply using the list to find reputable companies and this works well for all involved. It is the other small percent that have found they can use the list as clout to "blackmail" companies into providing free services. No one from Angies List inspects the work done but will print anything a home owner states. Even though a very clear contract is involved specifying the work Angie will still side with the home owner and if you do not do exactly what the homeowner wants you no longer receive referrals from the list or worse yet receive negative referrals....
And the advertising rates are ridiculous and there is a substantial increase every year....Splitting of territories, spin offs and yearly increases - ridiculous - Glad someone is finally grading the grader!! I give Angies List DDDDD
Anyhow it is a good scam for Angie and friends and does benefit the homeowners, but small business beware. There is a huge price to do business with Angie's List -- feels like dancing with the devil...............
Feels like Dancing with the Devil......
Small business beware! You will have no recourse if a crazy client posts a negative remark and a bunch of lies about you and your business -- "Angie" will only give lip service to your complaint and side with the client. Their "confirmation process" or dispute resolution is a joke. Also, often a "client" who is a relative or a friend of a competitor, may set you up so that you will have a poor review and in a small town all it takes is a couple of negative remarks for your business to be over and done with. Your good clients will have to join Angie's list to write a positive review and PAY $72.00 a year even if they don't give a hoot about Angie's list. This list has the right to exist, provides a fair service to the consumer, but it is like the Mafia. They have the upper hand and don't give a damn about your business as long as they make their money. They are protected by several laws related to freedom of speech on the Internet, but, hopefully, they are not protected by the wrath of God. They may be legal, but they operate immorally. While many homeowner have obviously benefitted, many small businesses, with a good reputation otherwise, have suffered. And they have to keep their mouths shut. And that's true: unscrupulous homeowners do blackmail service businesses and expect free services under the threat of being blacklisted on Angies'. A small business cannot survive under this climate - especially in a small town.
By the way: many thanks to Mr. or Mrs. KNADDISON who owns this website.
A Former Angies List Employee Speaks Out
Found this on houseblog:
I used to work for Angie's, and believe me, the line they give, and the way it actually works on the inside are NOT the same. Don't believe all the hype. In addition, they are a horrible company to work for. But, they can be a good resource to consumers, as long as you understand the information isn't 100% accurate or without bias.
if money is involved...
I am fifty years old, and I wish that I could believe in this perfect world of people just wanting to "help people." Maybe you can find that at church, but not on the internet, not matter what you try to "sell" yourself as. This Angie's list business is about money, and when money is the agenda, you must always ask yourselves if the data is going to be good. At 500,000 members and $60 a year each, that's $30,000,000! And on the way to the bank, they can tell themselves that they are "helping people," but really, would they care if they weren't, at that kind of income? And then, they charge businesses to have their listing upgrades, and get ad revenue. This is BIG money, so sorry folks, I am too old, and too cynical to believe in unbiased helpfullness, when that kind of money is being raked in. This is HUGE money, and common to all money making ventures, the person with cash to pay gets the attention, and the ones not paying don't get attention or written up. That applies to the customer who joins to angrily blow off steam, or to the business owner who "fakes" things, to get good reviews. It's likely that the satisfied customer doesn't waste $60 a year to tell anyone about a good experience. (Maybe good reviews should be free to post.) I wouldn't, I'd tell my friends and neighbors instead. That's the way it really works, and if everyone would just think about it, it makes sense. There is nothing like the recommendation of a trusted friend. Never has been, never will be.
Free contracting referrals for homeowners and GC's
What's wrong with Servicemagic.com?
What's right with it?
Aside from the fact that your comment screams "I'm the servicemagic.com head of marketing and I want to get us noticed on a page that's popular with people who dislike angieslist"
Your model is based upon a "contractors pay us, we 'pre-screen', and then consumers rate the contractor" right? So, the 'pre-screen' is going to be biased regardless of how hard you try to make it not be, the consumers rating the contractors will raise the same problems that some contractors have listed above (e.g. consumers can blackmail contractors and raise unreasonable problems), and there's still the problem of "why do I trust your screening vs. my friend or neighbor?" Trust links in real life are based on relationships. Why shouldn't online trust/recommendations be based on your real-life relationships as well?
Let me flip it back - how do you, anonymous poster, think servicemagic's model fixes the problems I identified with Angies List?
angies list & service magic
I have used Service magic contractor three times and could not be more satisfied.
I recently moved into a new house. I got estimates from 3 movers I took the one that appeared to be more credible,( not the lowest price). The movers were three hours late
the truck was too small and, they were one man short. The company was American Van Lines in Fort Lauderdale. They broke a mirrord headboard and immediatele wrote out a
company form and I got a copy. The claim amounted to $66.00 and was denied. Their man packed it, unpacked it and it was broken. I followed all the usual precautions that we are advised to take when engaging a contractor.Without Angies list or Service Magic we would have no recourse or,warning the public of unethical businesses.
well, you have lots of choices, really
You have at least three means of recourse:
So, why again do we need these sites inserting themselves into this process to take our money or the contractors money?
Service Magic rejects negative reviews
A friend of mine had a terrible experience with a contractor, and wrote a negative review of them and tried to post it on Service Magic, who refused to post it. They told him their customers are the businesses who advertise on Service Magic, and that they refuse to post negative reviews about their customers.
Service Magic sucks for a
Service Magic sucks for a different reason. The trouble with Service Magic is once you put a request in on that site you get inundated with sales calls from every company that does the work (and a few who don't) and they all claim to be great. The companies hate it too since they have to pay for the leads but then they have to compete against the salespeople from every other business who also paid for the lead. On top of that, the prospect quickly gets ticked off by all the sales calls. I don't think a good business would have anything to do with service magic, so what is left is what the customer gets.
Great money making racket for Service magic though.
Doggie Doo
My complaint is that when your favorite plumber took your dog out to do her business, she did it in my yard. Next time, have her take a dump in her own yard.
Honestly...Angie's List works for me
Honestly...I can't believe all the hubbub over Angie's List. Folks, what we're talking about isn't rocket science. Angie's List collects reviews from consumers and averages them. It's that simple. You either think it's worth the membership fee or you don't. For those of us who have found that Angie's List works...we'll keep paying our membership. I've been a member of Angie's List for two years. I can say from experience it's been worth it for me. Emergency plumbing problem on Labor Day weekend, Angie's List helped. Needed a tow truck to tow my car in at 7pm one evening, Angie's List helped. Needed an appliance repairman to replace the heating element in my dryer, again, I went to Angie's List. And my list could go on and on. Seriously, it's a chance to benefit from other people's experiences, without having to call five or six people about one contractor. You can quickly see the ratings, read the reviews and narrow down the hundreds, if not thousands, of unknowns you have when you need a contractor and need one quick. Angie's List works for me. It's that simple.
Angie's List mails your name to businesses you review
For all of those who like Angie's List, did you know these facts:
(1) Angie's List mails your review, along with your name and address to the business you write the review for. I always thought this was anonymous, until I got a call from an angry business owner, complaining about the negative review I wrote about his company on Angie's List. I was astonished to learn Angie's List sent it to him!!! I can't believe Angie's List doesn't tell members this in a prominent place...it's in the fine print on their web site, and not even in the membership agreement.
(2) Angie's List has far fewer reviews than what they advertise. I could never find reviews for businesses I was interested in on Angie's List, so I counted how many they had. They advertised far fewer reviews than they actually had.
(3) Angie's List says only customers write reviews, but this isn't true. If you're a business owner and you get a negative review, Angie's List encourages you to get your "good" customers to write reviews. They give business owners monetary kickbacks for referring new members. To me, this is extremely unscrupulous. I just read an online comment by a business owner who said he bought 10 memberships for his customers so that they could write good reviews about him. This seems WRONG. The more I read internet reviews of Angie's List itself, the more appalled I become!!
Angie's List has been great for our small company
We are a small service based company that has grown leaps and bounds in the past 5 years and we believe that The List has been a big part of this growth. We aim to please our customers and it shows in our 100% positive rating on the list. We have never paid to be on the list, we have never paid for customer memberships to buy ourselves positive ratings on the list. Our overall experience with Angie's List and their members has been nothing but a positive experience for our company.
Sorry to say this Knaddison,
Sorry to say this Knaddison, first of all when you say some one sucks, you should look at you. With out having proper knowledge of a particular business simply saying that business model sucks is meaningless. It proves that "Knaddison Sucks". Let me answer your points, then you can understand why I say this.
You Said
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Why This Angies List Policy is Dumb
Let's say that I'm a consumer. If Angie's list charges me $5/month I have to get a lot of value out of the list for it to be worth that membership fee. They have millions of customers though, so apparently it's compelling to some folks. Let's say that I'm the business owner, though. If I can create a fake email account and use my home address (or my neighbors address) so that Angie's List doesn't know who I am, then $5/month is a pittance for being able to enter a review of my own business.
So, their whole "we charge a small fee to keep the reviews honest" thing doesn't work for the stated policy, but it sure does help them bring in revenue without worrying about advertising.
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In this latest technology world where you can track everthing its not possible to deceive all the times. As you said if a business person pays $5 and can write a review about him. If he dont provide proper service to the customer, definetly customers will call and complain to Angies List. In this case even though he pays $5, it wont be of any use, because he already got the negative comments from the consumers. Ofcourse if he provides a best service, consumers itself will rate him good. So you can sustain in any business only when you provide good service. Of course you can get away 1-2 times. This is common with every business. So as you mentioned its not possible to deceive and get good ratings all the times. Just because of this you can say that their privacy policy is dumb.
Not just that, for $5 fee they charge from customers they provide many other services. Example if a home owner used one of the plumber service, he didnt fix the issue as well he charged them more. They take of getting this issue fixed as well the extra charge refund. Do you think for $5 a month is it not worth??
So better you understand their business before commenting on them. I am a happy customer with them from 2 years.
You Next Point
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Paid Position/Advertising on Angie's List?
Here's the worst part - after your company gets added they contact you and say something like "your company has been added and reviewed. If you'd like you have an enhanced listing you can pay us for that."
So the whole "we are acting in our members best interests" thing is bullshit! They have one interest in mind: their own.
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Again this is a dumb statement. Every one starts a business to make money. See your site itself. Why at the beginning of the page instaed of providing content, you have placed google ads and other ads. This page is full of Ads. Similarly every one does this for the sake of money. Not just you take for example Google, they say we provide quality and better results than any one. But if you pay on the top you can be on the Top of the search reuslts pages even though you sucks. Thast how the system works. Because of this you can not say google sucks. Only thing is you need to know how to use a proper business model and get the most out of it. If you can not use then that is your problem.
You last statement
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The Review Problem is Real
The thing is - it's really hard to run a review site. Really hard. Getting valuable metrics is difficult. How does each user know if they should be trusting the other users of the site. Angie's List's paid membership program clearly doesn't make sense (though it may work than other current options). So, what's the future? Fortunately, it's the online corollary to the system you already use in real life: you ask your friends and colleagues via social bookmarking that helps guide you to the best local plumber. This is the clear way to solve the problem in the future.
Sorry, Angie's List. You could implement these features in your site, but don't pretend that the $5 is for anything other than your own pockets.
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Atlast you realized that providing 100% real reviews is not at all possible. No one can provide 100% real reviews. You need to depend on people who really used services of that particular company. Also as you mentioned "you ask your friends and colleagues via social bookmarking that helps guide you to the best local plumber." Actually this a very good option. I 100% agree with you. But there are pitfalls with this as well. How much time its going to take to do all this work. Also you will get teh reviews of the services those people have used. You can not see the reviews of the other companies. Also if no one has used those services what you will do??? Every one dont have this much time and energy. So instead of all these hassels i will better $5 and get the reviews of the local companies.
Hope this explains all your points.
I'm not actually going to
I'm not actually going to respond to this aside from saying that
1) your grammar is atrocious - in your first sentence "Sorry to say this Knaddison, first of all when you say some one sucks, you should look at you." I count at least 3 errors including the fact that it's not actually a sentence.
2) your logic is empty because you don't back up your claims - "In this latest technology world where you can track everthing its not possible to deceive all the times." That may be true, but on Angie's list it is possible to deceive. That's all that matters for this discussion.
3) You didn't even bother to read the other responses on this page which point out the flaws in your logic - I don't have a problem with them making money, I have a problem with them lying about their motivations and the ways in which they make money.
4) You attack me personally as "dumb" but are too scared to post your own name publicly.
Three cheers to you, Anonymous man!
I am actually going to respond to this.
"Greggles",
I second your sentiments: atrocious grammar is a sign of ignorance. Atrocious grammar and empty logic are a sign of ignorance AND stupidity. Atrocious grammar, empty logic and not reading the whole post are a sign of Attention Deficit Disorder. Atrocious grammar, empty logic, not reading the whole post AND calling someone "dumb" are a sign of ignorance, stupidity, empty logic and ARROGANCE, and yes -- I place the word in capital letters.
Going back to the argument: there is nothing "wrong" with Angies' list except for the fact that they are a total rip-off for businesses and consumers alike. Having a good experience with contractors one finds through such a list may just be a matter of pure luck. Correlation is not always causation. Thus the illusion you got what you paid Angie's for may be just that: an illusion. My older uncle hired 2 people from this list. They were new and inexperienced, charged too much, and left town a month later. He did not write a negative review as he knew these young guys may have retaliated against him in other ways. Later, they were listed on Angie's with a glowing 5 stars.
Most business provide fair services even when they are not listed. As a matter of fact, most businesses with experience, reputation, and word-of-mouth referrals can care less about joining them and pay hefty fees. Contractors who join lists of this nature may have not have been in business a long time. Theyusually have to charge higher prices to cover their cost. The cost "trickles down" to the consumer.
Angie's is here to stay, but so are politicians, thiefs, and unscrupolous folks be they contractors or consumers.
Praise for Angie's List!
As a person who recently moved to Chicago I have found Angie's List a fantastic resource. Without a strong base of friends here who can give recommendations for companies, I consistenly turn to Angie's List for advice. I think that the website is easy to navigate and the service is well worth the nominal fee. As a fellow non-profit worker, I also support their business ethics. I have nothing but positive feedback for Angie's List.
fellow non profit
Are you saying "fellow non-profit worker" as in "fellow" to my wife who works for non profits?
As far as I know Angie's List is not a "non profit".
Other than that, yeah, www.angielist.com fulfills a role that needs to be filled, but their model is flawed and I predict that in the long run it will either have to change drastically OR will go down as a spammy-gossipy-den of lies.
Angie's List is Certainly a for profit company
$2400+ per month, per category cost to advertise on Angie's List in the 3 Columbus markets, internet and call center coupon (a way to make sure the call center gives your company name out frequently) Angie's List is definitely for profit!! Started advertising in 2003 and rates have more than quadrupled. Then monthly they charge $220 to be printed on the Honor Roll and the $2400 per month only covers one category and as I mentioned before we are rated on five seperate categories on the list so......... PROFIT - I THINK SO!!!!!!!!!! They try to sell contractors a million and one different services and charges are exorbitant!!!!!!!
Doing business with Angie's List still feels like dancing with the devil...........
Fed Up & Angry!
I was one of the many high ranking companies on Angie's List for over a year till yesterday. Then I received an email from Angie's List telling me that they were suspending my company from their list. Reasons they claim are a competior (falsely) claimed a photo submitted by a customer was their photo. Get this they say two customers that used me had both rated a health club so they thought this was fishy and fraud was invloved. They also said sisters (or relvatives) had both used me and both submitted ratings which is unusual. They even revoked my personal account even though they just charged my CC two days ago for the month. This is about the absolutely most outrageous think I've heard in a very long time. It's obvious their system leaves alot (emphasis added) to be desired. WOW!
Yes, the problem with this
Yes, the problem with this company is that it does not disclose its advertising business to consumers who buy a subscription, leaving them with the impression that Angie's List is only out for their consumer members. I doubt anyone paying their subscription fee would view that as anything other than a ripoff if not a complete fraud. Angie's List looks more and more like a scam the more I learn about them.
Not surprisingly, many of the high rated companies on Angie's List are those that from my own experience, I would avoid like the plague.
car repairs
I went to Angie's List looking for an honest and reputable mechanic-guess? All the dishonest and "slimy" mechanics that I had gone to - names were on the "good list" So much for that list-----
AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE
About Angie's: what you see is not what you get. They don't know the contractors personally nor is the "screening" process accurate. They are so big they cannot screen everything that comes in, positive or negative as it may be. They don't help with complaints made by the customers or by the business. They DO CHARGE BUSINESSES to be listed and to be placed on the top of their list. They try to milk the cow from both ends. Contractors and homeowners are just too small to fight what's become a multi-million dollar business. DON'T JOIN. You will be helping an dishonest company grow and rip-off more people.
Highly Rated Companies
Most of the highly rated companies are just that - excellent companies. My point is that contractors can and do pay exceedingly high advertising rates and in return Angie's List does give there name out much more frequently than companies that refuse to pay their outrageous rates.
I stopped advertising other than call center coupon and my calls dropped dramatically. Just an FYI.............
What's all the fuss about?
The commenter is free to issue his opinion. It is very small-minded to criticize him for his opinion, be it right or wrong. Angie's list is a service for those who wish to use it and who find it to be of service. Nobody is forced to use it. There is nothing else to say.
ok
You didn't comment inline with whichever "commenter" you are defending, so I'm not sure what you're talking about exactly. However, you seem to like Angie's list so I'm going to assume that you are defending one of the people who disagreed with my original post. Since all of the people who have disagreed with me have been insulting to me, just how reasonable is it for you to say that I'm being small minded when I criticize them?
Further, you claim that it is just for those who wish to use it and that nobody is forced to use it so there is nothing else to say. Your point seems to be that I shouldn't state something negative about them if I dislike what they are doing. How do you reconcile that with your actions: coming to my site--uninvited and without being forced--and then telling me what to write on my own site?
What All the Fuss About
You must be kidding! What's all the fuss about? Briefly: yes, consumers are free to use or not to use Angie's list. Angie's list, however, should not be free to misrepresent their services and lure gullible people or contractors to join. The problem is with Angie's mirsrepresenting its services. Last I heard fraud is immoral, ripping people off is not nice -- even when people believe they are getting something. You are correct, though, is some people are happy, so what? I don't have a beef with happy people, I have a beef with misleading advertising.
wrong
i have heard nothing but great things about angie's list so i'm not sure where all this fuss is coming from.
good point - I'm not sure either!
Frankly, I wrote what I thought was going to be a throw away post. My friend asked what I thought about them and I looked into it and wrote about it. The fact that so many people on this page have been motivated to write in their additional points about why they dislike www.angieslist.com just goes to show, in my opinion, that there are plenty of reasons to get "fussy" about them.
seems like another way to make money, gee wish I thought of that
I'm sitting here with an insurance check that is too small to cover hail damage, or so the companies I have contacted for estimates have advised. I have never looked at or considered Angie's list, but as the thunderstorm season rolls into full swing, I thought I'd check A.L. out. I discovered only too soon that you had to pay to get any information. I must have been asleep for the past few years as all the recommendations from friends and family to call A.L. never mentioned a fee. Maybe this doesn't bother me as much as the fine print, something about my email address, or sending me information about other topics etc. I don't have to pay for google, dogpile, live maps, map quest, sudoku, text twist, hotmail, etc. Why should I pay for this, and especially if A.L wants me to agree to let you clog my mailbox with unwanted solicitation, oh wait, I had to agree to this to join, so I guess it's not unwanted and you do allow me to unsubscribe. Fee or not, I see your point on how this could be manipulated adversly to the consumer all in the name of profit. As a further gripe, it's bad enough to have an insurance company lowball an estimate, it's even worse to know that you can't completely trust an organization that proclaims to be trustworthy. In this case, word of mouth, or BBB will have to suffice. Just my take on things. Thanks for the chance to vent.
Wrong
You have read only good things about Angies? Have you read this site? Have you called the BBB? Have you researched this company? Obviously not. Obviously you must not read much or know how to do research. Thank you, though, for letting us know.
Who/what is perfect?!
I've read all the comments here and I will disclaim that I am a business using angie's list and do pay monthly for both, being highlighted in rotation with several other providers in my category at the top of the list, and also for print advertisement in the monthly publication.
Several points to make....
1)I have never been told by AL staff that they would pay me for each new customer I referred, however I do at all times willingly tell people about the service b/c it far out does the blind crap shoot of the yellowpages.
2)I have 100 reports filed by my clients in just over 1 year on the list and I am only one small, new company, so they can have the # of reviews & customers they claim easily.
3)I could fictiously post "great" reviews about my company, but why? Potential customers could easily sense it, the BS being laid on and it's not worth the effort.
4)Craig'sList, the epitomy of open source marketing-free posting, etc., does in fact charge for some aspects in some markets (job posting in NYC). Nothing in this world is free and making some money is not inherently wrong.
5)AL listing/advertising is very reasonably priced for its customer base. In my city (1 million people), there are two "yellow pages" and they each charge $500 per month for a 1/4 page ad!!! That is $12,000 a year for something I immediately put into the recycle bin and find annoying & useless in their clutter "yellow pages on the web" listing at the top of my web searches.
6)The service must work based on isolating bad contractors from good. If it didn't, then you would see companies with "A" ratings loaded with bad reviews and this doesn't happen. It is a positive feedback loop. A company does good, they get good reviews, they get more customers, etc. They do bad, they get bad reviews, they lose potential customers, they fail or they advertise in the yellowpages where no one knows about their shoddy business practices or poor quality work.
7)I won the Super Service Award this year for my category and it was but one more incentive for doing excellent work. I had roughly double the amount of postings of any other company. Two things bothered me though. I needed to join the BBB, which is a crock in that their "business model" only keeps negative reports on a company for potential cu